Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2013 14:23:32 GMT
As we have a thread on Funakoshi's "Karate ni sente nash" (There is no first attack), how about a thread on Motobu's ”Karate IS Sente” (Here, sente means the initiative, or the first move).
|
|
|
Post by Allan Shepherd on Aug 15, 2013 16:25:49 GMT
Hi Paul
The subject is "Karate is first attack" but Sente is described as "initiative" or "move" so would it be a fair assumption that the first move is not neccessarily an attack as per your subject? Is Motobu or you saying Sente is not an attack but an initiative or a move? Confused!!
Best Regards Allan
|
|
|
Post by malk103 on Aug 15, 2013 17:20:40 GMT
Funakoshi also said that he who strikes first is likely to win the battle, I interpret "Karate has no first attack" to be that you should never use it to start fights, but if you think that you are going to be attacked then strike first!
In reality you wouldn't annoy someone and/or attack them, if attacked then you would use anything available. The middle ground comes when you are threatened or verbally attacked, ideally you should aim to leave or talk your way out of it BUT if you thought that you were going to be attacked then strike first.
There is a problem with translating literally...
|
|
|
Post by garage on Aug 17, 2013 17:42:48 GMT
In reality I do not really care what Funakoshi says or the the translation as it will all go out the window as I just want to get home alive.
I do not think I am quick enough to counterpunch them so I think I have a better chance if I go first. A guy from New York little problem with the translation said" hit them with your best shot as you probably won't get a second."
Yes I would annoy them, as a fully committed attack is easier to deal with. in America "your mother sleeps alone tonight" seemed to drive them nuts.and made them rush at you.
|
|
|
Post by malk103 on Aug 17, 2013 22:05:06 GMT
I would say that the key to getting home is understanding what people like Funakoshi said...
I was only quoting him as he was quoted saying no-first-attack which seemed to go against his other quotes but needs to be understood better.
Hitting with your best shot is good example of Kime, so long as it will hit home with maximum impact, and too right they shouldn't get a second chance!
|
|
|
Post by garage on Aug 18, 2013 2:37:36 GMT
It is easy to misunderstand what is said, the new york gentlemen meant if you do not hit them first time "you will not get a second chance". This was discussing left side forward medium technique to get an opening he was advocating rightside forward and hit them with your best shot not playing with them.
I read every book I could get hold of by Funakoshi. First problem I do not read kanji so I am reliant on the translater, often a karate nerd that wants to show him in the best light. Then people in Karate split hairs about words. They are phonetics which means they sound like something so some books call him tunakoshi for example.
His early books pre ww2 have one flavour which then changes to avoid a ban on martial art post 1945 perhaps. His skill using the media which is what allowed karate to spread. "There should just be karate what I do should not be called shotokan" That doesn't seem to stop anyone.
Then look at the pictures and video clips of him, no low stances with his belt dragging the floor so what he was doing and what we are doing is different.
After a few decades of reading the internet came along as books are expensive I concentrated on his books then you start to read other peoples view point, who do not reflect him in such a good light.
I got attacked by a drunk who after he tried to kill me, I got to know him, he assured me his kicks where developed by watching Kung fu films and had never trained in his life. As the the people Funakoshi faced would not be exposed to films and the internet, I would suggest his threat set was different so he is unlikely to have all the answers to questions that hadn't been asked of him.
Then he talks of modesty, some of the books keep refering to stories fights that he failed not to get into and then bigs them up,sure if he stuck to the dojo rules he avocates he shouldn't glorify violence by writting about it.
He also advocates invading other countries and using karate to instill culture into the conquered people. He also advocates using Karate to train for military service, if this was true I am sure some militaries would be using karate exclusively but, they are not.
There are good things, there are also things that are crap, you have to be selective.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2013 15:07:01 GMT
Hi Paul The subject is "Karate is first attack" but Sente is described as "initiative" or "move" so would it be a fair assumption that the first move is not neccessarily an attack as per your subject? Is Motobu or you saying Sente is not an attack but an initiative or a move? Confused!! Best Regards Allan Initiative being pre-emptive striking.
|
|