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Post by tomobrien1 on Feb 8, 2015 1:50:13 GMT
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Post by jimlukelkc on Feb 9, 2015 13:56:41 GMT
All martial arts emphasise repetition surely? I am not one to knock Shotokans effectiveness but I do not believe it is unique. It is direct, tough and if taught correctly a pragmatic defensive system but the best? Not for the reasons stated here, if at all.
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Post by Bob Davis on Feb 9, 2015 18:44:57 GMT
Hi Jim, I originally thought much the same (and posted as much on FB, still waiting the abuse ) but using my marketing hat you have to read the words for what is actually being claimed. The phrase is "There is no better martial art than Shotokan" which is crafty, it gives the impression of claiming it's the best whilst really only saying it's as good as anything. Rather than leave it hanging what I'd actually posted on FB was: "Whilst a lot of what is in the article is (potentially) true it also has a lot of the self delusional stuff that I've heard repeated over and over through the years by many who pay lip service to the concepts but don't actually train that way or really understand the reality of confrontation. Like (almost) any martial art, shotokan can work for you IF you train right and appropriately but self defence ability doesn't magically appear by putting on the white pyjamas and punching fresh air for a while." and "Quote taken out of context of the article just to make a point " Monitor your mind-set. Wouldn’t it be great if you could prepare yourself for an attack whenever you train? Shotokan students do that when practicing their techniques." I once fought a 1st kyu (shortly after passing my shodan) so neither of us high level students but still with 3-4 years of "practicing our techniques", I caught him with a nice clean (but controlled) punch to the sternum and he just froze on the spot mid competiton, he'd completely shut down. He admitted to me afterwards that "nobody had ever hit him before" 3-4 years of practicing technique had done NOTHING to prepare his mindset for a physical situation. Buyer beware Just saying "
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Post by garage on Feb 9, 2015 22:07:45 GMT
Attitude is everything. Going to a social club, drinking water, playing tag is not going to help self defence.
A number of people I have met have poor technique, but are effective as they have no regard for their fellow human's life. I go to play they where not playing, they just didn't care if they hurt anyone.
So train like a scum bag and you will have more effective results, are you prepared to let some of your soul go? I am a nastier person as a result of the training no doubt.
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Post by kensei on Feb 10, 2015 22:24:45 GMT
Attitude is everything. Going to a social club, drinking water, playing tag is not going to help self defence. A number of people I have met have poor technique, but are effective as they have no regard for their fellow human's life. I go to play they where not playing, they just didn't care if they hurt anyone. So train like a scum bag and you will have more effective results, are you prepared to let some of your soul go? I am a nastier person as a result of the training no doubt. I don't necessarily agree, Mind you I will admit that the scum bags of the earth who have little care for others well being probably are a tough lot! The whole article is Schlock as my grandfather used to say ( A word he picked up in the war from God knows who)! its just marketing stuff, the kind of thing you see on a sandwich board going down the street! Shotokan is an effective martial art...if the person doing it is effective. Telling someone that the style they train in will make them super human SD machines is...well Schlock! The repetition of a movement is necessary to make it natural, or you could just go with natural responses and see what happens...I fear more injury than good! I read the article and thought "Great marketing tool but that's about all" the article really misses any kind of scientific basis and does not even attempt to back up most of its claims, it relys on the pictures and odd quote from a "known" expert and does not offer really quantitative numbers to us. In my own somewhat educated opinion Shotokan is a fantastic frame work for great SD skills and can be used to develop your skills and reflexes. Its also a martial art or DO so it has even more benefits for those that don't want to just learn SD. I see tones of issues in all the martial arts but saying that any one is better at any one aspect is a bit off point, and like was said before, this article did not actually say that! Good marketing...but basically ....just a bunch of Schlock!
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Post by garage on Feb 11, 2015 11:03:11 GMT
"I don't necessarily agree, Mind you I will admit that the scum bags of the earth who have little care for others well being probably are a tough lot!"
It my experience they are quite cowardly, the dish it, they do not know what it feels like, when they do and realise it hurts a lot they may change their behaviour. I have noticed that they seem to lose the will quickly when it starts to hurt. As for the mob mentality that can fade when they start losing.
Neural plasticity. This is when the brain lays down pathways as a result of repeating the same moves. Most martial arts do this. The moves in Shotokan tend to be simpler so you learn them more thoroughly. I find in some other styles that they are more complicated and you just don't manage to repeat them enough. The thinking makes you slow as you have too many choices.
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Post by tomobrien on Feb 24, 2015 4:39:39 GMT
I love Shotokan, though I hold no rank in the system. One major gripe I have is that there should be more facial contact. You need to be able to get punched in the face & keep fighting. Depending on the school & the instructors, the amount of head contact can vary but a lot of Shotokan schools don't do it.
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Post by jimlukelkc on Feb 27, 2015 14:25:26 GMT
Getting punched at all is an important and much neglected aspect of many styles. I remember vividly the first time I was dragged into a "street fight " and being punched forcefully in the mouth. I recall thinking "Is that it? I got hit harder than that last Thursday in class! ". I am not advocating you volunteer to be punched in the face but I reckon you don't want the first time it happens to be in the street where you are so stunned you can't react !
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Post by tomobrien1 on Mar 5, 2015 2:33:58 GMT
I agree with Luke, to a certain respect. Too much head trauma is no good. Even seemingly small head trauma, cumulatively, can be devastating. The NFL has been under scrutiny as of late for having had so many retired players suffering from TBI (Traumatic Brain Injury). Check out this article: emedicine.medscape.com/article/92189-overview
My dad always told me "Learn how to fight but don't become a prize fighter." Here is the part that scares me -"The effects of single or multiple TBIs in later-life are poorly understood, particularly in mild TBI (mTBI). Recent studies suggest that even mTBI can lead to an increased risk of later-life cognitive impairment...", because I am 'later in life' lol
Thanks, Tom
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Post by kensei on Mar 5, 2015 13:54:19 GMT
hell some of us have to worry about later life "cognitive Impairment" with out having gotten beat about the head...wonder what we would be like if we did?
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Post by tomobrien1 on Mar 12, 2015 4:44:17 GMT
Reminds me of that old joke - there are 3 things that go on you when you get old - the first is your memory & I forgot the other 2
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Post by jimlukelkc on Mar 14, 2015 16:47:41 GMT
Its difficult to train 'like a scumbag' , you would run out of training partners pretty quickly. I do think you should pressure test techniques and don enough padding to allow heavy contact occasionally. We have some odd-looking implements in class, a baseball bat inserted into a MMA shin guard, and an array of variously sized sticks and plastic glasses/bottles but it is only for heightening awareness and training purposes. Reality is a different beast. However adopting a mind-set like a scumbag is useful. Not everyone is capable of that.
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