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Post by andyupton on Jan 9, 2011 21:17:12 GMT
Something I've wondered for quite a while now. What is the difference between (for example) "Sensei Kanazawa" and "Kanazawa Sensei" I have noticed also, that Japanese Sensei tend to be addressed as "X X Sensei" and non-Japanese Sensei tend to be addressed as "Sensei XX"
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Post by fujicolt on Jan 9, 2011 22:16:42 GMT
the correct version is Upton Sensei as in Upton San or Upton Sama
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Post by genkaimade on Jan 9, 2011 22:25:59 GMT
Mm, Sensei is just another Japanese honorific. To quote wikipedia, which has a pretty good article: "honorifics are gender-neutral and can be attached to first names as well as surnames. When addressing or referring to someone by name in Japanese, an honorific suffix is usually used with the name. Dropping the honorific - referred to as yobisute (呼び捨て?) - implies a high degree of intimacy and is reserved for one's lover, younger family members, and very close friends, although within sports teams or among classmates it can be acceptable to use family names without honorifics. When referring to a third person, honorifics are used except when referring to one's family members while talking to a non-family-member, or when referring to a member of one's company while talking to a customer or someone from another company. Honorifics are not used to refer to oneself, except to be arrogant (see ore-sama, below), to be cute (see chan), or sometimes when talking to small children, to teach them how to address the speaker." If you want more detail, see here en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_honorifics#Sensei
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Post by fujicolt on Jan 9, 2011 22:37:14 GMT
Mm, Sensei is just another Japanese honorific. To quote wikipedia, which has a pretty good article: "honorifics are gender-neutral and can be attached to first names as well as surnames. When addressing or referring to someone by name in Japanese, an honorific suffix is usually used with the name. Dropping the honorific - referred to as yobisute (呼び捨て?) - implies a high degree of intimacy and is reserved for one's lover, younger family members, and very close friends, although within sports teams or among classmates it can be acceptable to use family names without honorifics. When referring to a third person, honorifics are used except when referring to one's family members while talking to a non-family-member, or when referring to a member of one's company while talking to a customer or someone from another company. Honorifics are not used to refer to oneself, except to be arrogant (see ore-sama, below), to be cute (see chan), or sometimes when talking to small children, to teach them how to address the speaker." If you want more detail, see here en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_honorifics#SenseiI would tread very lightly young Alex - within the legitimate Karate world it is used as a sign of respect for a position earned and i would hope you like hospital food if you suggest to some Sensei that there honorific title is derived from meglomania. However, to be fair it is clearly used by some westerners in that way - there is a certain person springs to mind for me - but that is another story. Nice info you supplied though Alex San!
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Post by Paul Bedard on Jan 10, 2011 2:18:34 GMT
Sensei means; `one who has gone before`. A longer version of saying teacher. I once read an aricle on Fumio Demura who was I believe 7th dan at the time. He was asked on why he wasn`t called hanshi or shihan & his answer was that others generally give you a title & that being called sensei is an honour & he felt that was a hard enough title to live up to. The Japanese use their names in the reverse order than what westerners do. they use the surname first then the given name. For example at home my name is Paul Bedard, however in Japan I would be Bedard Paul. Here Mr. Bedard would be formal, there Bedard-san would be formal. When we are calling a Japanese sensei first then their last name, then we are using a westernized version. Last name first then sensei is more correct. This is so much more than a honorific just for the sake of it. It is showing respect where respect is due. A sensei is someone who has been there before & is sharing his knowledge with you. Also a sempai is someone who has been working with sensei longer than you & has taken you under his wing to help you along, he is your senior, has taken an interest in helping you & deserves respect.. OOPS. I`m typing as I`m thinking. Kind of like thinking with my mouth wide open. Don`t mean to sound to bold, just my opinion!! Osu Paul B
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Post by fujicolt on Jan 10, 2011 2:26:51 GMT
Sensei means; `one who has gone before`. A longer version of saying teacher. I once read an aricle on Fumio Demura who was I believe 7th dan at the time. He was asked on why he wasn`t called hanshi or shihan & his answer was that others generally give you a title & that being called sensei is an honour & he felt that was a hard enough title to live up to. The Japanese use their names in the reverse order than what westerners do. they use the surname first then the given name. For example at home my name is Paul Bedard, however in Japan I would be Bedard Paul. Here Mr. Bedard would be formal, there Bedard-san would be formal. When we are calling a Japanese sensei first then their last name, then we are using a westernized version. Last name first then sensei is more correct. This is so much more than a honorific just for the sake of it. It is showing respect where respect is due. A sensei is someone who has been there before & is sharing his knowledge with you. Also a sempai is someone who has been working with sensei longer than you & has taken you under his wing to help you along, he is your senior, has taken an interest in helping you & deserves respect.. OOPS. I`m typing as I`m thinking. Kind of like thinking with my mouth wide open. Don`t mean to sound to bold, just my opinion!! Osu Paul B Oss Bedard San. Thanks for the info. How is 'cutie San' today?
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Post by Paul Bedard on Jan 10, 2011 2:43:11 GMT
Cutie Sama is very well thank you ever so much. And may your hot tea spill on your lap.. ;D Paul B
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Post by fujicolt on Jan 10, 2011 3:00:51 GMT
ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH - that hurt - are yer satisfied now? On a serious note - with very senior visiting Instructors (Non Japanese) don't you just admire them more when they Outside of the Dojo say (for example) 'Please call me Dave - training is over now'
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Post by Paul Bedard on Jan 10, 2011 6:17:47 GMT
Absolutely! However, in mixed company I still use the respectful title. Unless of course we are are all a close knit group.. Paul B
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Post by kensei on Jan 10, 2011 13:14:43 GMT
First off "the one that came before" is a bit simplified. In Japan every one that teaches just about anything is called Sensei. One of my old students works in Korea and often travels to Japan to do some work with the sister school. I got an email about a year ago and she said she met a fellow by the name of Tanaka Sensei. My interest beaming at the time I asked if he was "THE" Tanaka...she said NO, he was name Ito Tanaka and was a short Old proff. at the uni that they are sister schools to who teaches English as well....and has never taken a martial art in his life...and grew up in Hawaii. Every one is a Sensei in Japan if they are teachers! I think we have gone "SENSEI" Crazy in the west. About ten years ago our organization at the time decided that anyone with a Dojo was to be called Sensei 24/7 by anyone that did not have one. We even had a shodan that was Sensei Charles, and he was my junior and I was to call him that. After we left that group my instructor stopped that foolishness right off the hop! We still have one guy that INSISTS on being called Sensei and Requires that we give him the right respect! Ever notice the peole that do this crap seem to have the most issues? Personally inside the club I am Sensei or Sempai, outside...if you call me that I will probably look behind myself to see who you are talking to! Titles dont mean much to me unless I fell you earned them...not you told me you earned them.....after all they are honorifics!
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Post by andyupton on Jan 10, 2011 13:43:12 GMT
I know of an instructor (who shall be nameless), - not Shotokan - who makes his wife call him Sensei even when out shopping ! I was out shopping at a large supermarket one day and I overheard his wife say to him "Shall we get this bread, Sensei ?" ;D
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Post by kensei on Jan 10, 2011 14:10:55 GMT
I know of an instructor (who shall be nameless), - not Shotokan - who makes his wife call him Sensei even when out shopping ! I was out shopping at a large supermarket one day and I overheard his wife say to him "Shall we get this bread, Sensei ?" ;D LOL, My instructors wife used to refer to him as Sensei when around students, but when talking to him she would call him by his first name. On a side note, for years..when I was a Kid I never knew my instructors first name. I knew it started with a P, but I did not even know what it was.
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Post by fujicolt on Jan 10, 2011 18:14:45 GMT
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