Post by kensei on Oct 18, 2012 13:15:34 GMT
Hey Gang,
As of late I have been zipping back to old haunts and going through old forums that I have since left....and in a lot of cases I now know why I left them. Some of the issues I am sure we dont want here that other forums have......
1. Extreme Hero worship!
This is when a group of people get together and fawn from afar over an instructor, group or style with blinders on as to reality. I have seen a group that thinks their style of Karate is so much better than others and they don’t see the holes in everyones game…even when video is posted they come up with excuses about the loss or they say it’s a fix. When its about a person or leader its even worse. One group I was part of is a “Kanazawa is the best” group and they don’t seem to see he has blood running through him and he is getting ready to retire. To them he is “the man” and will never retire because he CHOOSES not to grow old. One student argued that the last time he actually trained with Kanazawa Sensei he was a spry 60 that looked as crisp as the day he strapped on his first Gi!.....Kanazawa is now 81ish…..so 20 years ago he was “young” that’s 20 YEARS ago!
To avoid this you have to realize that A)we are all human and get old and have our frailties even now, B) your organization is a political body that runs a group of people….ergo their will be flaws as it is made up OF HUMANS……See A! Your style is not perfect…..it was created by a Human for a specific purpose and could have continued to evolve but it was run by humans…..go back to A again please.
2. Delusional hypocrites!
My way or the High way because HERE I am ALWAYS RIGHT and have the last word! We try to not do this here, we try to be fair, hear everyone out and I rely a lot on Dod, who for better or worse….See A in number one….does his best to be fair and make this place a great place to train…and almost always makes everyone somewhat happy most of the time….er we try and we listen!
There is one forum I USED to go to were the moderator and his friends from his Dojo run the joint and if you don’t agree with something he says you get made fun of and put “in your place” which apparently is some world of embarrassment and disillusion with the site.
Have also been a member on a forum were the owner stopped training, but continued to spew his line of bull to the rest of us and if you did not like it…well you were bullied and made to feel stupid even if you had trained just as long or longer than this moron and you were training MORE than he ever did…..and had a good point once and a while.
Again, we try to listen and see if you have a point. I actually look at any disagreement like this”…..they are probably right….I am probably wrong….listen to them and if you still think they are full of Ka Ka then you look a bit more deeply until you are sure they are full of “it” and then you call them on it”. And if it’s a site request in general…well I email Dod before I jump on things. Better to be sure than fast!
3. Nit Picky Nerd Syndrome…the evil NPNS!
Currently there is a KARATE site that is breaking down everything in JAPANESE and dissecting it. They are now looking at the Niju Kun and in place of just “this is what it means” they are literally breaking down the Japanese and its tedious, boring and has taken over the whole conversation on the site.
Now I know there are a lot of people out their, and on this site, that are a hell of a lot smarter than me and have a lot more education in things like linguistics and Japanese writing….but if I wanted to learn Japanese…I would take a class! If I wanted to know what the Niju Kun said….I would Google it! And while I am into things like kinesiology and biomechanics and such….I don’t break down the front kick move by move to show the different movement phases, comment on muscle action, force applied and recoil forces and cause everyone to equate my name with verbal Nyquil! No, I will comment like “yah, the front kick is powerful if you put your center more forward when kicking and the snap adds to the Whip like power it needs” and while my father rolls around at night frustrated over the money I spent on University…..I am happy not to make you all suicidal with boredom!
Point being is that I know guys like Elmar and I could go and have long winded conversations (shut it!) about biomechanics of movement and other folks here may find it somewhat interesting (at least more so than the first presidential debate…for my US friends), but others would see it as an hour of sitting through Gregorian chanting in church (for my catholic friends). I don’t see a point in taking something like the Niju Kun apart to such and extent as to make the conversation more about the use of “U” and not “Eu” than “Karate stands on the side of Justice”……If I wanna know about the Niju Kun I will Wikipedia it!
Often some people who lack real knowledge will start using their NERD POWERS to distract us and make the conversation all about “look little Johnny is so smart” and not “Look John knows his stuff about Karate”. Keep it simple and educational to the level one wants it….if we wanted a dissection of some Japanese phrase A) I will talk to someone who speaks Japanese and does Karate and B) I WILL ASK FOR IT! One site is all full of this kind of crap by people who know little about Karate and actually just want to strut like peacocks.
4. Owner bullies!
Again, bad experiences have all driven us away from sites were the owners were abusive bullies that basically pushed you out the door with insults and tried to keep those that agreed with them and acted like puppets or puppies when they were around.. Challenge the owner to think differently for one second and you are labeled a heretic on the site or worse, a moron!
I have learned more from not agreeing with people than from just saying “ous” and walking away or following along in tow by the owner as he pipes his way to the river! The reason for a forum is personal growth and development with likeminded people who may or may not have different ideas for you to play with.
I don’t always agree with Elmar and others here about everything and often my suggestions are “devils advocate” kinds of stuff to get people talking…and sometimes they are what I feel, be it counter to others ideas or not. The point is you don’t start a forum to just disagree or get people to agree with you. You form a community to build with , to learn from and more importantly to find others that want to do the same.
One forum I used to visit that has since changed to a blog, because the owner was upset at the number of people he had to chastise for not whole heartedly agreeing with every word he spoke and act like the good sheep we should have been, was a challenge just to go to. I would sign in and read all the insults aimed at me by a guy that had stopped training a decade ago and started training about six years AFTER I had started.
The conversations here will be nothing like that one, if you get a PM from a mod here its polite(ish) and will ask you to rethink you route or be sanctioned…not a whole on attack of your character for not agreeing with some piece of rubbish you think was generated by a delusional mind! My point is we strive not to bully people here as mods, we do what is good for the group and if you ever think we are pushing our boundaries and the site is starting to be a bit like the forum I described, let us know…we are open to change!
5. All out war!
I visited a site recently and it was ONE side vs THE OTHER side of the forum and within 3 minutes of reading I knew who were the Red team and the Blue team popped out as well! It was insanity! I saw one side as Pro-organization and the other as Anti-organization and they would do anything to get more members to split off from one and move to the other.
Within 1 day of being on the forum I was asked basically to pick sides. The cool thing was the forum owner/Mod had left the group open and just kind of left, so everything was a free for all and nuts! I remember one “verbal sparring match” that ended with “Yah, well go F yourself” and he used a few vowels with that F! It was mayhem and nothing was getting done…..I caught crap when I suggested we kind of discuss things with out the “FU”s and such and was attacked by both sides. I laughed and said “yup, mouth warriors” and left the forum.
I don’t always agree with what members here say, hell I have disagreed with just about everyone at one point or another, and while I know that you are all probably saying “Oh, that F’n James” you are nice enough not to type that….or at least delete it before you hit send….so for that…I thank you!
6. Dirt Diggers
We had an issue here recently with a few people trolling to throw muck at things. We try to keep this site as respectful as possible even in the worst of times and we have done a great job so far, thanks mostly to Dod! But I have been on a few forums that are Rubber necking morons and just want to sling dirt, kick people when they are down and go out and attack people. This is not the way a forum about Karate should be run!
The topic of choice here should always be Karate, not who did what to whom or what and org did to its members or who was caught doing what or even what someone “famous” said that upset someone else. Yes I agree if its Karate related a mention of it should be made, and depending on the situation ….limited to avoid it becoming the TOPIC OF THE MONTH, we should all make a quick and respectful comment and move on to yelling about what application the Grip in Hangetsu has or what the first move of Empi is.
Dirt Digging web sites are plenty guys and they specialize in finding things out, digging up dirt…and if they don’t find any often they just make stuff up…and destroying people so that the owner or members can feel better about themselves. Dod and I both say that its not up to us to judge people, organizations or situations and post our thoughts on the validity of the situation, we may comment but we don’t sit on any trial jury so its not for us to publicly say….not saying we don’t form our own thoughts and opinions, but we keep them to ourselves out of respect for others.
7. Elitists
Ever been to a site and realized that everyone looks down on you for what ever reason? Yah, I was at one site and said “I am JKA” and immediately the “lone wolves” started treating me like some kind of school child. They spoke down to me and skipped what I wrote because they thought I was lower class than them because I had not gone independent from the JKA. I am and always will be JKA, if not in affiliation then in my heart, and no one will ever take that from me…even the JKA. And I sure as hell don’t care what others think of that, nor do I think because you are not JKA or from some other group that your thoughts and training are not worth learning from.
The point of having an “OPEN” forum is to invite people from all over the darn place to come and share thoughts, experiences and opinions so we can grow, if you are ITKF or ISKF or JKS or something our thoughts are just as important to me as if you were JKA from Tokyo itself. I will learn from affiliated, independent, Big org, small org, rival or friendly orgs…I am not so snobby as to think I can not learn something from a Kagawa student over a Ueki student, that’s stupid. We all come from the same lineage, and the only reason to be afraid of others is if you know your training does not match your rank! If you feel you are a fraud and don’t want to get found out then you will open your doors and encourage cross organizational chatter!
8. Public Relation machines for organizations
There are forums out their that are PR machines for specific organizations that hide out and act like open forums. Now I know that this forum has a owner that belongs to one group and mods that belong to others and we don’t often hear things like THE JKA IS THE BEST BECAUSE... or JKS IS BETTER THAN THE REST CUZ…….
I was at one forum that was run by guys in Europe that was so Pro Kase Ryu Shotokan, and not the Fudokan guys, that they basically said the rest were crapola and if you did not train in Kasa-Ha Shotokan Ryu then you were wasting your time…..Really, so its not an option in Canada right now and I don’t have the money to go and train in france to regrade for my black belt….nor would I if I did have the time and money, so I should just stop training?
Point being we are open to all styles of Shotokan, organizations and approaches to training here and I have never seen Dod or other mods, nor would I, ever sensor someone because they are not from a specific org, nor would we change the banner for the site to a KUGB banner and suddenly suggest if you were not KUGB then you were wasting your days training in subpar styles of Karate.
9. Rank recognition factories.
I often wonder how some people get ranks four or five ranks higher than their instructors and they left the organizations years before. You have seen this happen I am sure…..instructor used to train with a group and was a Sandan or Nidan with that group….leaves after training with that instructor/Group for 20 years and forms his own group, travels to train with a few other instructors and was suddenly promoted to Rokudan! I know of one guy that was a 2nd Dan in Shotokan, traveled to Okinawa and trained with an UNKNOWN instructor in Okinawan Te…..and was given his Yondan by the guy….IN SHOTOKAN. Now normally this would be seen for what it is…but said instructor went and joined a forum of “like minded” people…..and he is was Recognized as a 4th Dan…till the next year when he went back and came back a 9th Dan…I kid you not.
The point is that the forum exists only to say “yes, you are the fake rank you made up” and they try to play it off as legit, and will fight with you tooth and nail to say you are wrong or accuse you of being elitist or blinded by the organizations that you “follow like Sheep”….I would say my rank is way more legit than someone that went on vacation to Hawaii called it Okinawa and came back tanned and three Dans higher! But hey, its not my forum and not my ranking that others will question.
10. Dull and controlling!
The OSS is not dull, nor is it controlling. I know of a few sites that are so over moderated that to get a post actually to show it has to be edited by the anal retentive moderators that black out or edit the hell out of your post to ensure nothing you say will be seen as offensive to others or against what the “norm” opinions are.
While we frown on and will step in if a verbal fight starts or quash bullies with PMS to smarten up….we will not get into it with those that want to discuss Karate opinions….even if they are heated. We encourage spirited debate and I have personally been in the middle of a few myself.
The point is that we are trying to be better by not falling into any of these pit falls and if you see that I am personally starting to aim the forum in these directions you should pipe up and say something….and it was fun to type this out.
As of late I have been zipping back to old haunts and going through old forums that I have since left....and in a lot of cases I now know why I left them. Some of the issues I am sure we dont want here that other forums have......
1. Extreme Hero worship!
This is when a group of people get together and fawn from afar over an instructor, group or style with blinders on as to reality. I have seen a group that thinks their style of Karate is so much better than others and they don’t see the holes in everyones game…even when video is posted they come up with excuses about the loss or they say it’s a fix. When its about a person or leader its even worse. One group I was part of is a “Kanazawa is the best” group and they don’t seem to see he has blood running through him and he is getting ready to retire. To them he is “the man” and will never retire because he CHOOSES not to grow old. One student argued that the last time he actually trained with Kanazawa Sensei he was a spry 60 that looked as crisp as the day he strapped on his first Gi!.....Kanazawa is now 81ish…..so 20 years ago he was “young” that’s 20 YEARS ago!
To avoid this you have to realize that A)we are all human and get old and have our frailties even now, B) your organization is a political body that runs a group of people….ergo their will be flaws as it is made up OF HUMANS……See A! Your style is not perfect…..it was created by a Human for a specific purpose and could have continued to evolve but it was run by humans…..go back to A again please.
2. Delusional hypocrites!
My way or the High way because HERE I am ALWAYS RIGHT and have the last word! We try to not do this here, we try to be fair, hear everyone out and I rely a lot on Dod, who for better or worse….See A in number one….does his best to be fair and make this place a great place to train…and almost always makes everyone somewhat happy most of the time….er we try and we listen!
There is one forum I USED to go to were the moderator and his friends from his Dojo run the joint and if you don’t agree with something he says you get made fun of and put “in your place” which apparently is some world of embarrassment and disillusion with the site.
Have also been a member on a forum were the owner stopped training, but continued to spew his line of bull to the rest of us and if you did not like it…well you were bullied and made to feel stupid even if you had trained just as long or longer than this moron and you were training MORE than he ever did…..and had a good point once and a while.
Again, we try to listen and see if you have a point. I actually look at any disagreement like this”…..they are probably right….I am probably wrong….listen to them and if you still think they are full of Ka Ka then you look a bit more deeply until you are sure they are full of “it” and then you call them on it”. And if it’s a site request in general…well I email Dod before I jump on things. Better to be sure than fast!
3. Nit Picky Nerd Syndrome…the evil NPNS!
Currently there is a KARATE site that is breaking down everything in JAPANESE and dissecting it. They are now looking at the Niju Kun and in place of just “this is what it means” they are literally breaking down the Japanese and its tedious, boring and has taken over the whole conversation on the site.
Now I know there are a lot of people out their, and on this site, that are a hell of a lot smarter than me and have a lot more education in things like linguistics and Japanese writing….but if I wanted to learn Japanese…I would take a class! If I wanted to know what the Niju Kun said….I would Google it! And while I am into things like kinesiology and biomechanics and such….I don’t break down the front kick move by move to show the different movement phases, comment on muscle action, force applied and recoil forces and cause everyone to equate my name with verbal Nyquil! No, I will comment like “yah, the front kick is powerful if you put your center more forward when kicking and the snap adds to the Whip like power it needs” and while my father rolls around at night frustrated over the money I spent on University…..I am happy not to make you all suicidal with boredom!
Point being is that I know guys like Elmar and I could go and have long winded conversations (shut it!) about biomechanics of movement and other folks here may find it somewhat interesting (at least more so than the first presidential debate…for my US friends), but others would see it as an hour of sitting through Gregorian chanting in church (for my catholic friends). I don’t see a point in taking something like the Niju Kun apart to such and extent as to make the conversation more about the use of “U” and not “Eu” than “Karate stands on the side of Justice”……If I wanna know about the Niju Kun I will Wikipedia it!
Often some people who lack real knowledge will start using their NERD POWERS to distract us and make the conversation all about “look little Johnny is so smart” and not “Look John knows his stuff about Karate”. Keep it simple and educational to the level one wants it….if we wanted a dissection of some Japanese phrase A) I will talk to someone who speaks Japanese and does Karate and B) I WILL ASK FOR IT! One site is all full of this kind of crap by people who know little about Karate and actually just want to strut like peacocks.
4. Owner bullies!
Again, bad experiences have all driven us away from sites were the owners were abusive bullies that basically pushed you out the door with insults and tried to keep those that agreed with them and acted like puppets or puppies when they were around.. Challenge the owner to think differently for one second and you are labeled a heretic on the site or worse, a moron!
I have learned more from not agreeing with people than from just saying “ous” and walking away or following along in tow by the owner as he pipes his way to the river! The reason for a forum is personal growth and development with likeminded people who may or may not have different ideas for you to play with.
I don’t always agree with Elmar and others here about everything and often my suggestions are “devils advocate” kinds of stuff to get people talking…and sometimes they are what I feel, be it counter to others ideas or not. The point is you don’t start a forum to just disagree or get people to agree with you. You form a community to build with , to learn from and more importantly to find others that want to do the same.
One forum I used to visit that has since changed to a blog, because the owner was upset at the number of people he had to chastise for not whole heartedly agreeing with every word he spoke and act like the good sheep we should have been, was a challenge just to go to. I would sign in and read all the insults aimed at me by a guy that had stopped training a decade ago and started training about six years AFTER I had started.
The conversations here will be nothing like that one, if you get a PM from a mod here its polite(ish) and will ask you to rethink you route or be sanctioned…not a whole on attack of your character for not agreeing with some piece of rubbish you think was generated by a delusional mind! My point is we strive not to bully people here as mods, we do what is good for the group and if you ever think we are pushing our boundaries and the site is starting to be a bit like the forum I described, let us know…we are open to change!
5. All out war!
I visited a site recently and it was ONE side vs THE OTHER side of the forum and within 3 minutes of reading I knew who were the Red team and the Blue team popped out as well! It was insanity! I saw one side as Pro-organization and the other as Anti-organization and they would do anything to get more members to split off from one and move to the other.
Within 1 day of being on the forum I was asked basically to pick sides. The cool thing was the forum owner/Mod had left the group open and just kind of left, so everything was a free for all and nuts! I remember one “verbal sparring match” that ended with “Yah, well go F yourself” and he used a few vowels with that F! It was mayhem and nothing was getting done…..I caught crap when I suggested we kind of discuss things with out the “FU”s and such and was attacked by both sides. I laughed and said “yup, mouth warriors” and left the forum.
I don’t always agree with what members here say, hell I have disagreed with just about everyone at one point or another, and while I know that you are all probably saying “Oh, that F’n James” you are nice enough not to type that….or at least delete it before you hit send….so for that…I thank you!
6. Dirt Diggers
We had an issue here recently with a few people trolling to throw muck at things. We try to keep this site as respectful as possible even in the worst of times and we have done a great job so far, thanks mostly to Dod! But I have been on a few forums that are Rubber necking morons and just want to sling dirt, kick people when they are down and go out and attack people. This is not the way a forum about Karate should be run!
The topic of choice here should always be Karate, not who did what to whom or what and org did to its members or who was caught doing what or even what someone “famous” said that upset someone else. Yes I agree if its Karate related a mention of it should be made, and depending on the situation ….limited to avoid it becoming the TOPIC OF THE MONTH, we should all make a quick and respectful comment and move on to yelling about what application the Grip in Hangetsu has or what the first move of Empi is.
Dirt Digging web sites are plenty guys and they specialize in finding things out, digging up dirt…and if they don’t find any often they just make stuff up…and destroying people so that the owner or members can feel better about themselves. Dod and I both say that its not up to us to judge people, organizations or situations and post our thoughts on the validity of the situation, we may comment but we don’t sit on any trial jury so its not for us to publicly say….not saying we don’t form our own thoughts and opinions, but we keep them to ourselves out of respect for others.
7. Elitists
Ever been to a site and realized that everyone looks down on you for what ever reason? Yah, I was at one site and said “I am JKA” and immediately the “lone wolves” started treating me like some kind of school child. They spoke down to me and skipped what I wrote because they thought I was lower class than them because I had not gone independent from the JKA. I am and always will be JKA, if not in affiliation then in my heart, and no one will ever take that from me…even the JKA. And I sure as hell don’t care what others think of that, nor do I think because you are not JKA or from some other group that your thoughts and training are not worth learning from.
The point of having an “OPEN” forum is to invite people from all over the darn place to come and share thoughts, experiences and opinions so we can grow, if you are ITKF or ISKF or JKS or something our thoughts are just as important to me as if you were JKA from Tokyo itself. I will learn from affiliated, independent, Big org, small org, rival or friendly orgs…I am not so snobby as to think I can not learn something from a Kagawa student over a Ueki student, that’s stupid. We all come from the same lineage, and the only reason to be afraid of others is if you know your training does not match your rank! If you feel you are a fraud and don’t want to get found out then you will open your doors and encourage cross organizational chatter!
8. Public Relation machines for organizations
There are forums out their that are PR machines for specific organizations that hide out and act like open forums. Now I know that this forum has a owner that belongs to one group and mods that belong to others and we don’t often hear things like THE JKA IS THE BEST BECAUSE... or JKS IS BETTER THAN THE REST CUZ…….
I was at one forum that was run by guys in Europe that was so Pro Kase Ryu Shotokan, and not the Fudokan guys, that they basically said the rest were crapola and if you did not train in Kasa-Ha Shotokan Ryu then you were wasting your time…..Really, so its not an option in Canada right now and I don’t have the money to go and train in france to regrade for my black belt….nor would I if I did have the time and money, so I should just stop training?
Point being we are open to all styles of Shotokan, organizations and approaches to training here and I have never seen Dod or other mods, nor would I, ever sensor someone because they are not from a specific org, nor would we change the banner for the site to a KUGB banner and suddenly suggest if you were not KUGB then you were wasting your days training in subpar styles of Karate.
9. Rank recognition factories.
I often wonder how some people get ranks four or five ranks higher than their instructors and they left the organizations years before. You have seen this happen I am sure…..instructor used to train with a group and was a Sandan or Nidan with that group….leaves after training with that instructor/Group for 20 years and forms his own group, travels to train with a few other instructors and was suddenly promoted to Rokudan! I know of one guy that was a 2nd Dan in Shotokan, traveled to Okinawa and trained with an UNKNOWN instructor in Okinawan Te…..and was given his Yondan by the guy….IN SHOTOKAN. Now normally this would be seen for what it is…but said instructor went and joined a forum of “like minded” people…..and he is was Recognized as a 4th Dan…till the next year when he went back and came back a 9th Dan…I kid you not.
The point is that the forum exists only to say “yes, you are the fake rank you made up” and they try to play it off as legit, and will fight with you tooth and nail to say you are wrong or accuse you of being elitist or blinded by the organizations that you “follow like Sheep”….I would say my rank is way more legit than someone that went on vacation to Hawaii called it Okinawa and came back tanned and three Dans higher! But hey, its not my forum and not my ranking that others will question.
10. Dull and controlling!
The OSS is not dull, nor is it controlling. I know of a few sites that are so over moderated that to get a post actually to show it has to be edited by the anal retentive moderators that black out or edit the hell out of your post to ensure nothing you say will be seen as offensive to others or against what the “norm” opinions are.
While we frown on and will step in if a verbal fight starts or quash bullies with PMS to smarten up….we will not get into it with those that want to discuss Karate opinions….even if they are heated. We encourage spirited debate and I have personally been in the middle of a few myself.
The point is that we are trying to be better by not falling into any of these pit falls and if you see that I am personally starting to aim the forum in these directions you should pipe up and say something….and it was fun to type this out.
