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Post by kensei on May 23, 2013 12:17:26 GMT
So, I had this discussion with a parent in one of my juniors clubs and apparently what we teach...is kiddie MMA stuff so his kid can grow up and be the next GSP! Well, I kind of laughed it off because lets face it...before GSP it was Tiger woods...way before him it was Jordan and I am sure we can do that before him right to the stone age! Fact is that Karate is LESS hard on your body and also it will develop kids bodies very well to be healthy and stong if done right....MMA and other martial arts endevours tend to break people down to much and they are hard on the students bodies and they have a "Career" that lasts about 5-8 years if they are lucky and leaves them broke and beat up! Not only that but most MMA fighters SHOULD Be doing a good job of chasing people away from training in MMA. Look at the Diaz brothers...not exactly great reprosentitives of teh sport. Not all MMA fighters are brain dead thugs however, guys like Machida are doing a great job but even then you get stories of him drinking his pee and such. To me MMA is a different sport and should not be called Mixed MARTIAL ARTS because it has changed into something new and different with out the spirit of martial arts in it. Dont get me wrong, I love watching it...but I like watching the Knicks every year too...and Yes I know...they wont win!
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2013 15:44:44 GMT
Not only that but most MMA fighters SHOULD Be doing a good job of chasing people away from training in MMA. Look at the Diaz brothers...not exactly great reprosentitives of teh sport. I am with you on that one. A local MMA fighter managed to get himself a conviction for assault in an "entirely unprovoked attack". Now, whilst his actions are in no way typical of MMA fighters that fact that his instructor not only allowed him to continue training, but actually commented on the story online coming to the defence of his student is typical of the sort of thing you are getting at. Any self respective TMA instructor would have kicked him out his club in disgrace. I am a huge MMA fan, but there seems to be no "filtering out" process for the undesirables.
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Post by th0mas on May 23, 2013 16:44:30 GMT
My vote is that MMA is good for karate.
Basically in the 90's it shook up the TMA complacency and there is now a greater emphasis on reality rather than tradition.
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2013 20:08:28 GMT
My vote is that MMA is good for karate. Basically in the 90's it shook up the TMA complacency and there is now a greater emphasis on reality rather than tradition. Not where I live, they still haven't "twigged" ;-)
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2013 20:13:38 GMT
As for is MMA good or bad for Traditional Martial Arts I would on balance have to say bad.
On the one hand yes MMA is more attractive to “undesirables” and that therefore keeps them away from TMA.
However, on the other hand:
Let us imagine we have a young man, we call him Bob :-). Bob has just become old enough to start drinking in pubs with his mates, and he is worried about getting his head kicked in my some drunken Neanderthal. Bob decides that he is going to learn to defend himself.
First off Bob goes along to his local MMA club, he sits in on a session and watches. He sees people punching bags, and each other. He see’s them guarding their chin like a boxer and learning to protect themselves from the sort of attacks he is likely to get in the “street”, (i.e. a right cross). He sees them doing things that make sense and Bobs sees himself being able to do given a few months.
Then the next night Bob goes along to his local Karate club. He sees students going up and down the training hall over and over up and down punching and kicking nothing but fresh air. He sees them with their non punching hand guarding not their chin to prevent being knocked unconscious, but instead protecting their hip for a reasons he cannot fathom, and which most of the students and even some Instructors are unable to explain. When they do pair off they spend their time defending attacks which Bob will not be attacked with in the pub (i.e. oi-tsuki). When they are not going that, they are doing little two minutes dances which he learns are called kata, but he never sees the students practising the technique that kata are there to record. Bob then learns that if he trains for 5 years he will get a black belt and only then will the real learning start.
Which of these do you think Bob is going to think is the most useful to him in the pub on a Saturday night?
The irony of course is that TMA are actually more useful as looking at the list of technique which are banned in MMA is almost like looking at a blueprint for successful street defence. The problem however is the way they all TMA’s (not just Karate) are presented and come across to the layman. I do believe that TMA drastically needs to change the way it presents itself to the public.
Once the whole Bruce Lee phenomenon took off TMA became fascinating to westerners. Due to the esoteric nature of TMA the nature of these strange movements was not immediately apparent the media and the public bestowed upon them the status of “mysterious” “secret” and “deadly”. This defiantly helped TMA grow, now however for the scenario I have suggested above with our friend Bob, this esoteric nature is a hindrance.
The MMA gyms where are live are packed, literally they do not have enough room to accommodate the number of people that want to train there. The TMA classes the other hand rely on children to survive and the number of adult students can often be counted on one hand.
TMA’s need to drastically re-address the way it presents itself to the public, it just doesn’t come across as useable in “the street” as MMA. Some people are doing this, but unfortunately they are in the minority, at least in my experience.
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Post by kensei on May 24, 2013 11:48:34 GMT
here is another "change" we have seen recently.... 20 years ago when MMA came out and it was HOT and the next big thing...we saw Reality clubs pop up be it MMA or "REAL FIGHTING" clubs and it drew the 16-25 year olds off and Dojos were left with children and adults about 30 and up training. Now, we see parents throwing 5 year olds in a MMA school praying they learn to defend themselves and maybe...just maybe...produce the next world champion.....its blind and stupid but what ever. Result is that we have kids learning to hit each other, getting hurt bad doing Jitsu like moves and not learning how to harm each other with out the maturity to know what that really means...which is bad for society in general. AND we now have the classes for 35 Plus at the mma schools. No longer are the old guys like me wanting to learn self defense, get in shape and learn to relax...no they want the Gym work out of Chuck Liddell and they want to fight and relive the glory of youth and work out thinking they will be the next Randy Couture and actualy do a fight at 40 or older....and they get hurt really bad really fast, end up at home on the coach and clamoring to get back to the gym to actually earn that six pack. The trainers have no idea how to train older people becuase they are pushing and marketing this while only knowing how to train that 20 year old willing to scramble his brains to earn a title shot on a local circut. Its actually pretty sad. And again, this is coming from a HUGE MMA fan. but I realize that the MMA training and career is only meant for that 5% of the population that can do it at a high level and only .05% will make it to a UFC level contract...which still is less than the .00005% that make enough money to call themselves millionairs off the money they make in the cage. Facts are....Karate may not be as interesting as MMA but it can be made to be more interesting with some impact training...and you dont have to worry about broken knees, brain injuries and going to work weekly with a black eye! yes, accidents happen in TMA..but they are accidents....You get a black eye in MMA training and they call it....Thursday!
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Post by tomobrien on May 26, 2013 20:12:32 GMT
I love what James wrote about the Diaz bros, the fact that MMA fighters have a short life span & yeah, MMA is becoming WWF. I'm still doing martial arts @ 64. I win only because I out-lasted everyone else. We have always been a conglomeration of anything that works. I do try to maintain the traditional stuff. We wear a gi. but most times we do not bow in a line. I just did some training in Krav Maga. They use a belt system but only wear a tee shirt. I disagree that the Knicks are never gonna win. Wait till next year
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