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Post by garage on May 29, 2013 15:54:42 GMT
Keage iraken appears in kata from Hiean 2 upwards. Most people find opening the hip awkward and a back fist is mean to be snap and in the katas it is shown as holding it out.
So if you want to avoid this technique easy; take up Wado Ryu where they perform it as a front kick instead of a side snap kick.
Want to do it as Funakoshi intended? Hironori Ohtsuka set up Wado ryu in 1929 after a whole year training with Funakoshi he was made chief vice instructor. The katas are pretty much the same as shotokan and there are only 16 of them. So probably the front kick was changed to a side kick sometime after 1929.
Looks nice but a front kick probably works better. Wado Ryu is the most practiced style of karate after all.
10 billion flies can't be wrong....
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Post by th0mas on May 29, 2013 18:03:18 GMT
Hi Bert
I've talked about this elsewhere... and also my personal distaste for keage (although I should admit that I have grown to dislike it in direct proportion to how much it has begun to hurt my knees as I have got older...)
Basically my view is:
...That originally all the yoko geri’s were in fact the same kick – Kekomi, Keage and fumikomi. In fact I expect that the kicks were not differentiated (including Mae-geri and mikazuki) in the kata's either.
In kata I suspect that originally there would be just a reference to“kick knee here” … or something.
What I think happened is as shotokan and its early offshoots like Wado were influenced by other Japanese fighting arts such as Kendo, as i think you allude to in your post, and the fighting distance was extended, then the function of certain kicks changed and also new kicks evolved...
Kicking under the chin became a viable target (and also looks much more impressive during demonstrations!). The basic thrust kick evolved into the three types (kekomi, keage and fumikomi) and so how they were performed evolved to best suite the function and target of each of the kick-types.
..going back to Uraken-keage combination.
If we re-focus the fighting range back to close for the purposes of interpreting the kata motion, then for keage the emphasis is on the returning leg (as compared with the long range application – where the outward motion is aimed to kick to the chin or arm-pit or groin).
The foot is “placed” on the knee (outward strike) and the kicker’s body weight is then transferred onto the leg to force the opponent to buckle. Imagine stepping on your opponent’s calf as if you were going to climb up his body…
This then leads nicely to the back-fist to the face and then a follow up grab and maybe Empi (a la. Yodan etc).
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Post by malk103 on May 29, 2013 21:08:03 GMT
I like how it appears in a few Kata, I think that the applications and meaning are different, in H2 I think it is meant to be a strike to the ribs and face, looking closer then the fists starting on your left hip could mean you have grabbed a hand and pulled them towards you as you kick/punch. Add an extra twist as you turn into Shuto Uke you could interpret this literally as a head twist. I think later in Yondan/Kanku etc you follow up with Empi then I think it's meant to show closer range, the Uraken maybe a hair pull and the Keage possibly against the furthest leg/knee.
I think you can drill it as side/front kick, a simultaneous kick/uraken etc.
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Post by elmar on May 30, 2013 0:55:40 GMT
keage for me was always "intended" (or at least is most efficient) below the waist. I teach it by suggesting that people think about walking around a barnyard after a good rain, thus getting about 6 inches of much on the bottom of their boots. Then walk up to a wall, stand sideways to it, and bang the edge of your foot against it to get the muck to drop off. So for this combination, the keage should to go any farther away than the uraken can reach, and the targets are knee and face (the hikite insures that the opponent can't get away).
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