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Post by Rob S on May 29, 2013 17:09:42 GMT
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Post by tomobrien on May 31, 2013 2:14:36 GMT
Squash?! Really?!
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Post by sagan on May 31, 2013 4:20:01 GMT
Is anybody really surprised??? The IOC has made it crystal clear a number of times that in order for karate to be granted entry into the Olympics there must be cooperation between governing bodies. Unless WTK and ITKF are willing to sit down and iron out their differences it will never happen! Until such time as they are willing to do so don't bother spending another single dime or another second of anybody's time on "Olympic bids".
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Post by kensei on Jun 3, 2013 14:55:41 GMT
I for one am super happy that the failed attempt at putting a mediocure version of Karate into a sport setting went the way it did.
For one, look at what the Olympics did to/for Judo. it went from a martial art based on making it easy for the little guy to defend themselves to an all out sport and lost alot of its tradition...heck the ranking of a person was actually based on the number of events they went to and how well they did!
the inclusion of Karate was going to be restricted to Kumite, and Kata was OUT. With out our Kata and rules to separate us we are simply to similar to Tae Kwon Do. Never mind that the IOC said we all need to get along and form one group to over see our participants....it was a bad goal and faulty attempt from the get go.
I truely hope that those that want to participate in Sport Karate see that this was for the better in the end and will help those of us that dont want to see Karate watered down to simple sport ensure that Karate can remain a martial art and not a simple sport!
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Post by nathanso on Jun 4, 2013 6:04:02 GMT
Since I am an old fart, I am not enamored of the WKF kumite rules and prefer the shobu ippon sparring that I was used to doing. However, I do not consider that to be any less of a "sport" than WKF sparring; its just quibbling over the rules.
I didn't realize that the WKF plan for the Olympics left out kata. I don't think that is necessarily bad. Kata competitions are the epitome of sport. Scoring kata is really no different from scoring diving or the floor exercises in gymnastics.
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Post by kensei on Jun 4, 2013 11:39:08 GMT
I didn't realize that the WKF plan for the Olympics left out kata. I don't think that is necessarily bad. Kata competitions are the epitome of sport. Scoring kata is really no different from scoring diving or the floor exercises in gymnastics. The point being that we dont have anything that differentiates us from TKD then. They kick and punch (well they kick alot) and score points wearing white PJ's....granted they wear a metric tone of foam while doing it The "common man" sees Karate and TKD as pretty much the same thing (SHudder) and with out our unique and beautiful Kata and the hoppy bounce of some of our Karate style fighters we pretty well much are (shuddering again) the same thing...but with punching ;D I for one am glad (yes saying it again) that the watered down sporty version of Karate is not getting the nod for the oly's! I think we need to focus more on the traditionalization of Karate...bring it back to the old ways and focus alot less on mainstream sport.
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Post by elmar on Jun 6, 2013 11:34:37 GMT
From the POV of punchy-kicky in white pajamas, karate and TKD ARE the same thing; just as Neil points out, quibbling about rules. All non-contact stuff in this ilk devolves to a common "style" defined by the scoring rules of the sport. I don't believe that one can call it "watered down" - just changed. There probably are as heated arguments about the differences between the various flavors of rugby - Australian rules, vs whatever. If winning trophies is your goal, that is one thing. If sparring is a means to a different goal, that's another. And if you have pretensions to doing an "art", that's a third thing. Referring to "tradition" doesn't really help - what tradition, bound by what limits in time and place? Japan in the late 60's? Okinawa in the early 1900's? England in the 80's? My guess is that it more of the last, right?
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Post by Rob S on Jun 6, 2013 16:39:09 GMT
Referring to "tradition" doesn't really help - what tradition, bound by what limits in time and place? Japan in the late 60's? Okinawa in the early 1900's? England in the 80's? My guess is that it more of the last, right? Elmar is totally correct. Who interprets the meaning of traditional? And under what guise. We know the Okinawans wrote to JKF in complaint of incorrect kata interpretation. We know many feel the JKA of the 60's and 70's is the only way for Shotokan. Some feel that the so called 'Budo' associations of today carry the only viable rules. Others feel that Shotokan cannot match Shito or Goju in kata performance. Each to their own. The fact that WKF only included 1 x K in the bid has been refreed to already. Why refer only one small part to an IOC Body? What happened to the kata? Why was it not included? Because the public are bored watching it, or because they just cannot understand it? Also as eluded to, 'traditional' (that word again) karate has a reprieve of a few years! Before the sport mania takes over again. But we will not sort out the issues. We can't. JKA will not compete, if it can avoid it, with WKF rules, and vice-versa. (Of course JKA now joined forces with JKF, but their rules remain firmly entrenched in differences). Nishiyama sensei tried to set out a stall. I had many many conversations with him, on journeys, and dinners etc about jacques Delcourt and the WUKO issues. He was never going to agree, nor were they! He created his fukugo embu events, he also created some good rules to do with 'jogai' but even the JKA, of which he was a founding father did not take it/them on board. So here we are, keyboard warriors, espousing the good old days (some of us anyway) where the facts are many of those old timers could not win in today's competition world. I once asked Abe Keigo sensei about an infamous JKA competitor and why he could never win - the answer ' ... kun could not obey the rules!' I also look at old kata - take Dario Marchini as a benchmark; and the new - take Luca Valdesi (both Italians). Marchini had nice kata back then, but not to the same level as Valdesi. I do not like the new kata, but he is smooth, he has form, he has timing, and he has equal passion. Shotokan are blinded, in many cases, by the halcyon days of JKA. But the other styles seem to move on. Just MHO!
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Post by johnnewman on Sept 17, 2020 16:59:31 GMT
I don't really see the point of all this if there weren't anything else. The best of this was seen years ago in a competition format. Now the traditional MMA, Karate, or any other type of sports like that is more affiliated with fitness, that's it. Recently a few of them started off a campaign regarding the real game impact and why should one learn a specific game by Elite Sports. I hope they're doing it again in the upcoming days.
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Post by johnnewman on Sept 22, 2020 17:04:24 GMT
Let's go with Mix Martial arts and other types...
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Post by johnnewman on Sept 23, 2020 18:51:28 GMT
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