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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2013 19:49:54 GMT
I am sure that most shotokan clubs teach a wider curriculum than what they ask for when testing for grades. But why do you think that the kihon section of gradings stick to such a narrow curriculum. I have not seen a syllabus that asks for palm heel strikes, knife hand and ridge hand strikes, spear hand, full range of elbow strikes etc etc...
I've been checking out JKA, KUGB, SKIF and some smaller assocs and clubs on the web.
I guess it could be argued that there is no need to as those techniques will be demonstrated in kata. What do you all think?
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Post by Allan Shepherd on Aug 18, 2013 20:20:47 GMT
Hi Alan
The KUGB syllabus for 6th Kyu to 5th Kyu onwards requires Shuto Uke/Nukite!! Not checked any other.
Best Regards Allan
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Post by Allan Shepherd on Aug 18, 2013 20:38:13 GMT
Hi Alan
Just checked our group (JKA/WF Sensei Kawasoe) and Shuto Uke/Kokutsu Dachi...Nukite/Zenkutsu Dachi is a 7th Kyu requirement!!
Best Regards Allan
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Post by garage on Aug 19, 2013 19:59:36 GMT
It could be argued that performing a spear hand is awkward if you do not condition your hands. Having spend a number of years striking into sand and gravel. I noticed that whilst picking my nose I no longer had the same feeling in the tips of my fingers, and I was not getting the same pleasure of feeling the bogies and flicking them out. So I let the skin go thin again.
So I guess I would be demonstrating the technique as I have not maintained the conditioning in my hands to do them.
One of the deep joys of shotokan is the limited range of techniques compared to the complicated range of half hearted techniques in other styles. The look of fear when they realise what is going to happen when my repitiore of 1 technique connects. The next person in the row comes up with a range ailments to avoid you.
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Post by malk103 on Aug 19, 2013 21:57:18 GMT
I think most clubs orgs seem to have a set minimum syllabus and have just stuck with it, there is scope to add loads more but the average joe will probably struggle with extra techniques. We have tended to add "ANYTHING" to Brown belt gradings and certainly train lots of variety during lessons, it is a shame if clubs just stick to standard syllabus stuff as it's like learning the alphabet but only practicing A to G...
But then white to black is supposed to be basics so around Shodan and beyond then start expanding the techniques used.
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Post by Allan Shepherd on Aug 19, 2013 22:10:14 GMT
Hi Bert
I had the same problem when picking/scratching my bottom........NO NO NO, seriously I have never had the inclination or need to do the sand/gravel thing in 47 years of training!!!!
Nukite to the sternum or throat does not need fingers of steel, just total belief/commitment in your technique, bit like seiken in board breaking.
Best Regards Allan
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2013 5:33:07 GMT
Bert I was thinking about conditioning my hands by striking into sand but my manicurist advised against it!
The more I think about it, I guess the reason the gradings stick to the simple stuff is it is just to test that students are practicing correct technique coordinating feet, knees, hips, back, head, arm and hand positions.
Looking around I have found an assoc that lists in their kyu gradings... stepping forward tetsui step forward uraken step forward manji uke step forward kosa uke in zenkutsu dachi manji uke, gedan shuto, nagashi uke
No mention of ura or kagi zuki!
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Post by th0mas on Aug 20, 2013 10:10:24 GMT
Hi Alan
The big problem is that like with all exams, the process of testing becomes the "end goal", rather than the "means to an end".. with obvious consequences on the syllabus that is taught. The Grading should support your teaching syllabus, not the other way round!
The Karate grading structure and content should enable the student to demonstrate they have the appropriate skills to acquire the next grade. Each participant undertakes to demonstrate their skills using a "representative range" of techniques and applications appropriate to their level. BUT the goal of the grading should be to test the student has learnt the fighting skills and achieved an appropriate level of skill in the Art, not just the skills to pass the grading.
cheers
Tom
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2013 12:35:10 GMT
Hi Alan The big problem is that like with all exams, the process of testing becomes the "end goal", rather than the "means to an end".. with obvious consequences on the syllabus that is taught. The Grading should support your teaching syllabus, not the other way round! The Karate grading structure and content should enable the student to demonstrate they have the appropriate skills to acquire the next grade. Each participant undertakes to demonstrate their skills using a "representative range" of techniques and applications appropriate to their level. BUT the goal of the grading should be to test the student has learnt the fighting skills and achieved an appropriate level of skill in the Art, not just the skills to pass the grading. cheers Tom Tom, I agree with what you have said. I liked your use of the phrase 'representative range'. I guess that in the kihon section of a grading you just want to see correct technique being used rather than the full arsenal of multiple or elaborate combinations.
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Post by Allan Shepherd on Aug 20, 2013 13:12:16 GMT
Everything we require is contained within Taikyoku Shodan, this is our foundation to build upon. I have seen some horrendous Kihon Kata which has in turn reflected upon all those that follow. One stance, one block and one counter attack.
Best Regards Allan
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Post by th0mas on Aug 20, 2013 15:25:19 GMT
Everything we require is contained within Taikyoku Shodan, this is our foundation to build upon. I have seen some horrendous Kihon Kata which has in turn reflected upon all those that follow. One stance, one block and one counter attack. Best Regards Allan Hi Allan Although I agree getting the fundamentals right, in terms of body mechanics etc, at an early stage is very important. There must come a stage where you stop polishing the turd and move on to more advanced martial concepts and fighting principles... If all you aim to perfect is Kihon or Taikyoku and thereby only focused on the form and body mechanics of one stance/one block/one counter attack it seems to me to miss "all the heavenly glory". The irony is that Heian Shodan, which is the closest Heian equivalent to Kihon, was originally the second kata (so called Pinan Nidan). Thus making Heian Nidan (or Pinan Shodan as was) the foundation kata for Shotokan Karate... just a thought
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Post by Allan Shepherd on Aug 20, 2013 16:53:44 GMT
Hi Tom
When I said "Everything we require is contained within Taikyoku Shodan, this is our foundation to build on" I did not mean full stop. Everything that follows is a variation on a theme but sadly some people do not realise the principles of these three basic techniques and consequently they cannot effectively move on to more "complex" or "advanced" techniques. Each of these three techniques teach us the principles contained within all of the others so if we fail to understand them how can we progress? The analogy I use is driving lessons which is simply a system used to pass our driving test, it does not teach us to drive, learning to drive comes when we apply all the basic techniques that we have learn't within the driving lessons/driving test to a more advanced level.
Yes, Nidan did come prior to Shodan irrespective of them being called Pinan or Heian and yes which kata was/is the foundation kata is subjective. I was fortunate enough to be taught the 6 Taikyoku kata before any other so from my personal perspective I see them as a "group" being the foundation kata(s).
Our art is an accumulative one which requires us to "crawl, walk and then run" which is the main reason why so many students leave as they want a quick fix so to speak. I always maintain that as an Instructor I am NOT teaching students how to fight, that ability if it exists will come to the fore IF they understand not only the principles that are being taught but more importantly WHY they are being taught.
Best Regards Allan
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Post by tomobrien1 on Aug 23, 2013 19:51:04 GMT
What about ten no kata or tenno kata? Do you guys still do it? I love it!
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