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Post by Allan Shepherd on May 26, 2014 19:03:15 GMT
Hi Bert
Not necessarily...we as individuals ultimately decide if we have advanced irrespective of what discipline if any we follow. Although in Karate our instructor invites us to grade on the basis that he/she feels we are ready, if the candidate feels otherwise they can postpone the grading. We are all different when it comes to being put on display which is why I think that part of the grading process should consider the time/performance between grades that have been spent in the dojo.
A classic case of personal advancement was Henri Plee who was credited as being the father of European Karate. Story goes that he was self trained and when it eventually came for him to grade he was awarded the rank of Godan.
Presumably Funakoshi was initially accountable to his instructors for advancement through the grading process but later became autonomous. Although the grading process runs to Judan there is one more namely Mudan which stands for beyond grading.
Best Regards Allan
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Post by garage on May 26, 2014 19:40:36 GMT
Having read Funkoshi's Autobiography, I read it as the grading system only started in the 20's as a result of Funakoshi borrowing it from Judo where he stayed with Kano who sponsered him to stay in Japan, along with the suits.
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Post by daveb on May 28, 2014 10:15:49 GMT
There are only three grades in martial arts. Student, Instructor and Chief.
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Post by Bob Davis on May 28, 2014 12:08:59 GMT
Are there even that, "Chief" only exists in a structured hierarchical organisation so if there are only students and instructors there's no need for a chief. "Student" and "Instructor" are very much interchangeable depending on circumstance (unless you are that very rare beast that knows everything ) so many of us are both.
I'm not anti grade as a measure of progress (I think it's a limited measure with it's own problems, but it can have a purpose) but you can't have it both ways, there are either grades (in which case the number is irrelevant be it 3 or 100) or there aren't. Just saying
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Post by garage on May 30, 2014 11:05:14 GMT
I think the problem comes when grades become the purpose and you lose sight of what you are doing...
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Post by daveb on May 30, 2014 16:35:45 GMT
Chief to me denotes enough understanding to do things your own way and have others follow you.
I think this sort of system is why every instructor and his wife had their own variation on the kata before Japanese karate and tradition.
Should I learn from the fourth Dan, the first Dan or the ninth Dan?
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Post by garage on Jun 1, 2014 19:57:57 GMT
I went looking for a fourth dan the other day. When I first met him he was a yellow belt, He is still a yellow belt to me. My cup is full. What I am trying to say is whatever grade they attend the same courses. When does the enlightenment happen? Perhaps in the bar afterwards, maybe I should have taken up drinking?
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Post by D.Ram on Jun 2, 2014 9:06:27 GMT
Oss Bert, I was wondering too about what happens in the process of aging - as a Nidan practices another few years, gets his Sandan, what has changed? I have two vague "answers" - (A) Honing - better techniques - a shuto uke which makes more sense and is more effective, a movement in Bassai Dai which is more correct than how a Nikyu does it, etc. and (B) Enlightenment - the "Aha"'s of Kata-movements, when you discover your own meaningful Bunkai which is not yet documented in the books you've read!
______________ The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in battle.
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Post by garage on Jun 10, 2014 13:38:15 GMT
If you watch someone who has practiced you can see the hours in their movements. It reflects hours of practice not how much they can afford for a grade. Being 10th dan doesn't stop the ageing process or is any reflection on time practiced.
As you age you get older and probably worse.
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