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Post by shinzan on Jan 23, 2011 23:14:24 GMT
Recently our Sensei has been encouraging us to develop techniques that although traditional have for whatever reason have been somewhat negleted. One (now that I am aware of it : startalingly obvious technique is Hikite. The list of implictions appears endless for this technique. Does anyone else here regularly train in incorporating Hikite into thier karate outwith the standard pull back right arm throw out left arm sort of thing. Does anyone have some Not Forgotten techniques to add for discussion?
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Post by fujicolt on Jan 23, 2011 23:52:13 GMT
I assume David that you are referring to the use of hikkite in terms of grabbing, pulling and even blocking or leading into other techniques, clinches holds and throws. a great source of study.
I would suggest the 'educated' use of Unsoku (strategical foot movement) is woefully neglected within many shotokan dojo - many believe that 'stepping 45' covers it and it doesn't at all.
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Post by jimlukelkc on Jan 24, 2011 22:46:19 GMT
Leading into tai-sabaki, leading into irimi and tenkan?
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Post by jimlukelkc on Jan 24, 2011 22:47:21 GMT
Anyone use kumade or koken-uchi? Ever?
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Post by jimlukelkc on Jan 24, 2011 22:48:10 GMT
sorry, damn flu! Koken-uke
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Post by fujicolt on Jan 25, 2011 0:52:54 GMT
of course
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Post by andyupton on Jan 25, 2011 5:13:39 GMT
I have done Kumade with my class (striking the soft areas such as the throat), but not "Koken Uke". What is Koken Uke ?
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Post by guyakuzuki on Jan 25, 2011 7:10:30 GMT
koken uke also known as kakuto uke if I'm not mistaken.It's a block with the top of the wrist also known as "crane head" (When I practised kempo in my early twenties we used to practise techniques like kakuto uke,kumade,....quite a lot )
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Post by Dod Watt on Jan 25, 2011 8:02:17 GMT
We have covered these in detail on previous courses that Steve has conducted, but most clubs and groups don't because these strikes/blocks are not part of their syllabus, but if we use these techniques, it means we are developing our karate the way it was intended to be taught, as a MARTIAL ART So come on guys lets start helping one another by posting some neglected techniques, technique that are not in the standard syllabus but are in our system. You don't need to go into great detail about them, just post the name so we can cross reference it, and then we could discuss and debate their usage
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Post by andyupton on Jan 25, 2011 14:03:37 GMT
koken uke also known as kakuto uke if I'm not mistaken. It's a block with the top of the wrist also known as "crane head" (When I practised kempo in my early twenties we used to practise techniques like kakuto uke,kumade,....quite a lot ) Ah yes. Now I know it !
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Post by fujicolt on Jan 25, 2011 16:14:34 GMT
It is a sad but undeniable truth - you CANNOT study a full , comprehensive and useable version of Shotokan Karate if you only follow the grading syllabus of most Shotokan groups (sadly even the JKA) because they tend to contain only a fraction of the full arsenal of techniques, tactics and strategies that are actually available.
please don't suggest to me that - it is all in the Kata because it just isn't - although Kata study can widen your arsenal it is a vaque and only partially productive process. No one KNOWS the actual intended applications and therefore we can only examine what the Kata is 'IMPLYING' - therefore Kata 'implications' are varied and often impractical (not always).
it is better IMHO (after decades of looking at this) to make yourself fully aware of and competent in, the techniques and strategies/tactics available to you and then devise training drills that will make them useable.
Somewhere i put up a clip showing the hand techniques for you but i can't find it (sorry) here is another - not brilliant but a start:
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Post by fujicolt on Jan 25, 2011 16:48:45 GMT
here is an example of what i talk of.
to the untrained eye it looks very dynamic and workable BUT it isn't.
If you look closely NOT once does the attacking karateka make his attacks 'in range' - that is to say the defending karateka had no need to block because EVERY single attack was inches short of target.
Even if this was corrected we still have the problem that everything is done at long to medium range and trust me on this, real encounters get UP CLOSE and personal VERY quickly once it kicks off.
also the timing is unrealistic - if we even allow for the fact that they are using basic karate 'attacks' (mae geri, Oi tsuki and Gyaku tsuki) for training purposes (something you will rarely encounter in reality) - the timing is stunted and deliberate; NO ONE attacks with that kind of timing, you won't see it in competition and you definitely won't see it in real live encounters.
if we are to explore kata and use what we percieve to be applied we MUST broaden our thinking and 'imagine' real attacks, in real time and real distance.
I have discovered long ago that if you do this the implications become far more plausible.
there is a full chapter on this in my book but you'll have to wait a while - sorry.
I hope the above is useful and would love to read your thoughts - for and against - my advice.
mr Millon is clearly a very fit and athletic man - WKF derivative I suspect and i respect his effort but would have to politely say 'he just don't get it'
Sadly many believe this is 'applied Kata' and it simply isn't.
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Post by Paul Bedard on Jan 25, 2011 23:58:53 GMT
Kakuto uke, was shown in the original karate kid movie as `paint the fence`. Osu Paul B
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Post by jimlukelkc on Jan 28, 2011 19:14:51 GMT
A lot of that last clip relied on his opponent standing rigidly still whilst he used him as a prop to perform his techniques against. Not convinced by the Bunkai but who am i to criticise? Wish I was as flexible but not for me .
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