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GKR
Feb 11, 2011 16:34:36 GMT
Post by kensei on Feb 11, 2011 16:34:36 GMT
Ignoring steves last post ;D The problem with the GKR group and those like it (ATA anyone?) is that they market well, they push product like used car salesmen and they ignore common sense...and what is even more annoying is that the general public does not do the foot work and research to figure out that they are sham artists. Logic would clearly show that the top down is weak at best and fraudulent at worst. I am not just going to Nail the GKR group as we have Temple Kung fu in Canada and the states, we have ATA in the states and countless others. But most of the clubs cator to the kiddies and get away with it because parrents see it as a great baby sitting situation. And I HATE BABY SITTING. Had a great compliment last night, we teach a 1/2 hour kids class before our general class at our new club, great way to get the kids rolling, and one of the moms told us that the structur we provide and the training for kids is great and better than the local TKD place does were it is all games. She also can not wait for the kids to be done their short intro so they can join the regular class. EDUCATION IS THE KEY PEOPLE>....that and stop being so friggin modest, MARKET and show the general public who we are and what we can offer them over these watered down at best frauds!
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GKR
Mar 19, 2011 19:28:18 GMT
Post by kensei on Mar 19, 2011 19:28:18 GMT
anyone else think its funny that they are showing others how to embroider their own belts...They look horrible!!!!!!
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GKR
Mar 21, 2011 12:07:35 GMT
Post by kensei on Mar 21, 2011 12:07:35 GMT
I took Aikido for a short period and I can tell you they have a few major moves that can be altered to be thousands of variations, but lets be frank here...they are talking out their butts again!
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GKR
Mar 21, 2011 21:29:41 GMT
Post by fujicolt on Mar 21, 2011 21:29:41 GMT
Bert - sorry but your doing your thing again. So please try and explain what it is exactly you are trying to say and the theory basis behind it = cos at the moment it appears just gobblydegook to me = very sorry!
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GKR
Mar 23, 2011 10:57:39 GMT
Post by fujicolt on Mar 23, 2011 10:57:39 GMT
I knew there was a sane and erudite person somewhere in that 'fascinating' Vehicle Storage Facility which appears to show us that dual personality syndrome is actually kinda cool.
Thank you kind Sirs!
LOL!
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GKR
Dec 5, 2013 12:37:58 GMT
via mobile
Post by ian77efc on Dec 5, 2013 12:37:58 GMT
i have been talking to several people who have had bad experiences with GKR but i don't really know much about GKR - Can anyone enlighten me - who set it up and exactly what style is it they 'teach' and is it true they promote people to dan grade in a few months when gkr came to UK very beginning around 1999 is when I got employed in our area we canvassed doors with a sales book and load of bull shot spiel about how to sell them 4 month introduction membership for 20 quid we apparently we're lied to saying we were self employed so they avoided tax but fact was we were employed by them not self employed anyways we would basically do few hours a week training by yellow belt we were given a class to train ourselves and given a black and white instructors belt what I hear you say yes that's right people paid 5 pound a class to be trained by a yellow belt most clubs I ever trained in were 3 quid less and trained by great 2nd Dan or at least straight up black yano qualified people it was a con I felt like I was being a fraud gkr was built on sales patter bot quality karate I wouldn't advise you joining it was a bullshit company only interested in money not training quality stay away if you any sense join your local sports club at a center not these clowns
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GKR
Dec 5, 2013 12:45:46 GMT
via mobile
Post by ian77efc on Dec 5, 2013 12:45:46 GMT
Sorry garage, didn't mean to sound so grumpy, it's just that you do hear so much crap over the internet that sometimes you just gotta say something. Didn't mean for you to get hit directly in the firing line. And yes I am sure that many have had bad experiences and I am sure that goes for lots of organisations not just GKR. But just to confirm - it is not a pyramid scheme and you can not reach black belt in a year. Peace. Osu.
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GKR
Dec 5, 2013 12:50:55 GMT
via mobile
Post by ian77efc on Dec 5, 2013 12:50:55 GMT
Sorry garage, didn't mean to sound so grumpy, it's just that you do hear so much crap over the internet that sometimes you just gotta say something. Didn't mean for you to get hit directly in the firing line. And yes I am sure that many have had bad experiences and I am sure that goes for lots of organisations not just GKR. But just to confirm - it is not a pyramid scheme and you can not reach black belt in a year. Peace. Osu.
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GKR
Dec 11, 2013 9:17:58 GMT
Post by garage on Dec 11, 2013 9:17:58 GMT
Hi Ian sorry to hear of your experience.
If you work in the UK at the same location and are paid an hourly rate there is little chance you will be able to prove you are self employed. If you were self employed you need to add about 40% to cover your tax and pension contribution. The going rate would be about £20 an hour for an instructor with tax paid or £30 self employed.
On the other hand you got paid. If it was the traditional 2nd dan you mention they get nothing, and chief instructors want paying in cash to avoid income tax. Tax avoidance or fraud seems common to all karate organisations. So moral high ground if you are an instructor from any of them.
As a customer it's a different argument.
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GKR
Dec 11, 2013 15:23:32 GMT
Post by kensei on Dec 11, 2013 15:23:32 GMT
A pyramid scheme is "a business model that involves promising participants pyament or services, primarily for enrolling other people intot he scheme, ranther than supplyin any real investment or sale of products or services to the public". the basic model of a Pyramid scheme is a "captain" at the top that gets paid a percentage of the total funds that all members bring in, a "co-pilot" that gets paid a smaller percentage and "crew" that are recruited to sell the products or services. Normally the recruited "crew" is brought up quickly based on sales ability and this type of multi level marketing allows for the "captain" who created the service or endevour to grow their group using a sales force that is paid only if they sell and a large portion of the funds get send to the top level of the pyramid.
Another main component of the pyramid Scheme is that most of what is sold is fraudulent or not of quality, it is often self created and self governed when it comes to services. The GKR tends to fit nicely into this model....however so do some of the more "legit" organizations if you read the definition the right way.
The GKR has a few simple items that make them at the least McDojo-ish if not a complete Pyramid fraud!
1. They prmote students with little time to be "sensei"'s and wear a black belt with a white band...often they are not much more than 7th kyu students with at most a year of real training under their "belts". This to me screams Fraud when the general public sees a "sensei" as someone that has had YEARS of training and are accomplished in some way other than just a "special class". If I am forking over money to train with someone then I sure as hell want a qualified instructor in the way I think qualified means!
2. Less than truthfull sales. One guy I spoke with about GKR over the pond was saying that they tell the students a bunch of lies at the door when they are signing up and then they say "well, its really this way" after the contract is signed and the money is taken. To me that is just crappy! I would say "well our style is a bit different and our teaching is done out of a book we get and a special course we take and its more of a work out class unless you have real tallent then we put you on the sport team and promote the hell out of you....other wise its Tae Bo with attitude!" the gent was told that his instructor had great training and was very accomplished...turned out he had been training for 9 months and was a yellow belt...who took a course to be a "sensei".
3. Door to door system of sales. I have to admit that it seems to work, but at the same time its shady as hell! I think of door to door religious nuts and their recruitment style and then KGR is just a slip bellow them! The fact is that going door to door and "selling" your system with half truthes is kind of shady to be nice! But Hey, come to Canada and go door to door right now....its only -27 and feels like -43 with the wind chill!
4.Use of sport teams, I have been told that most students are just taught the basics of the system and a watered down curriculum and used to get "paid" and that if you show any tallent they put you on a "sport team" to reprosent them. Now I have been told this is true...and not true. but the guy that suggested that more tallented studetns were "paid more attention" was one of those "tallented lot" so I think it has some weight.
5. A made up system that used existing systems and then covers up the story. Again, this can be used against many systems, including my own (Shotokan) which was a mixing of two different exisitng systems. but the fact that the founder of GKR was only a brown belt in Shotokan before creating GKR and then he "hired on" a Goju shodan to help build that side of the system is a bit suspect....then self promotion to the higher level is another indication of shady things. I mean Funakoshi stopped at 5th Dan and did not really achnowledge it at all as well.
Anyways. my thoughts all this aside is that if its a fun thing that a family is doing and the instructor does not cause harm or mislead a student then go for it. I guess if I was lookign for something to do with my son/daughter and this was offered at the local YMCA I may take it up and even if the instructor told me he had 9 months of training and we were training out of a book I would pay for their time and the rental space. But if I wanted to continue training and reach a higher skill level...well I would go to a real club.
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GKR
Dec 12, 2013 10:48:14 GMT
Post by garage on Dec 12, 2013 10:48:14 GMT
To be argumentative for the sake of it.
The JKA use a more traditional pyramid. In that the traditonal pyramids use slave labour. Dozens of clubs where the instructors do not get paid. Like the pharoahs of Egypt it is a birth right to be a true member, the clue is in the name JKA.
As you pointed out Funakoshi was 5th Dan. The invented waiting period between dans is clearly ignored if you are a member of the pharohes inner circle.
Do they provide instructors courses? I expect most local instructor have not been on an instructors course if they exist at all.
Then of the few day course that are like pop concerts where you turn up to be in the same room as the pop star and you are never shown anything.
The shocking awful teaching copy and you are allowed to do it wrong without correction so you can really get it really wrong and practice it.
The great thing about GKR is it was set up by an Australian which was an old penal colony so it is no suprise it is equally dodgy in it's own way. I think might of been him on Neighbours last week in the dingoes sports club doing the self defence class with Brad and Amber.
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GKR
Dec 12, 2013 14:38:19 GMT
Post by kensei on Dec 12, 2013 14:38:19 GMT
To be argumentative for the sake of it. By all means go for it! The JKA use a more traditional pyramid. In that the traditonal pyramids use slave labour. Dozens of clubs where the instructors do not get paid. Like the pharoahs of Egypt it is a birth right to be a true member, the clue is in the name JKA. I did mention in my post that this was the case, one "could" look at the JKA and say it was a pyramid scheem...one problem however, with the JKA you pay them only a yearly amount (if at all) for membership, not a portion of your income as an instructor for the right to teach. GKR takes a percent of your earning and pushes you to be bigger. Yes, they take grading income for Dan levels, but they tend to leave Kyu grading alone...which is the bulk of the grading income anyways. by no means is an instructor in a different country a slave to the JKA. We teach what we want and how we want. Our students simply need to meet specific standards for Dan recognition at testing times. also, the whole birth right thing is way off. anyone can be a member and while it is right that mostly Japanese go through their instructor program...maybe thats because they hold it in japan and only a few crazy people will go and live their and go through the program outside their own country. As you pointed out Funakoshi was 5th Dan. The invented waiting period between dans is clearly ignored if you are a member of the pharohes inner circle. Again, another statement I can not agree with. If you are a "inner circle" member well, by that point you are already a 5-6th dan and I dont know of anyone personally that jumped rank or was advanced up ranks faster than they should have been. unless you count the off shoot organizations like the ISKF. All the rank advancements I have seen are falling with in the correct wait periods. Then of the few day course that are like pop concerts where you turn up to be in the same room as the pop star and you are never shown anything. I have been seeing this sentement alot lately. "all seminars are is a rock concernt where an instructor comes out and shows off and then goes home".....first off I trained with Ueki a few years back in pheonix and he was not showing off. Granted some are better at teaching big crowds than others, but to say that they come out and teach then rush home...well yah! I dont sit in awe of anyone, I go to a camp or seminar and I watch, listen and take home what works for me and thats it.I dont care if the guy is a 5th dan or 9th dan. I am not stary eyed person that gets washed up in the feeling of meeting someone famous...thats a personal issue some people have and it should not be put on the instructor as their fault. The shocking awful teaching copy and you are allowed to do it wrong without correction so you can really get it really wrong and practice it. I would say that the JKA does what it can to provide solid ideas on what to do and how to do it. They even put out videos and host as many camps as they can. If you are so thick that you do something wrong and wont change it they can not change that. Again, dont put that off on the organization, thats a personal issue for those screwing up. I have always said that many of the arguments against Groups like the GKR can be thrown at more legit groups like the JKA, ISKF, ITKF, SKIF or IJKA or ASAI-Ryu or what ever. its the level or degree that the shady business is done and the multitude of them that speaks volumes and puts a shadow of Fakery on them.
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GKR
Dec 13, 2013 15:11:04 GMT
Post by garage on Dec 13, 2013 15:11:04 GMT
1951 = 3rd 1955= 5th 1961 = 8th I guess you would argue that you do not personally know Nakayama so therefore your argument would still stand. You have now "seen" one that doesn't follow the waiting period so you can't say that anymore.
I am using the word slave for someone who carries out a task for which he recieves no renumeration. In my country the licenses are not valid and do not allow you run a club without affliating to something that actually is recognised in this country. So therefore these licenses are fake as you cannot use tham legitamately.
Unlikely the GKR man's Ferrari which looks more real than a JKA License.
All I am saying training in these type of organisations means a steady financial loss, including when you go to the bar it is always your round. They never pay for anything. In the spirit of argueing for the sake of it.
Are shotokan insturctors always grumpy because of the finanical loss?
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GKR
Dec 13, 2013 18:26:08 GMT
Post by kensei on Dec 13, 2013 18:26:08 GMT
1951 = 3rd 1955= 5th 1961 = 8th I guess you would argue that you do not personally know Nakayama so therefore your argument would still stand. You have now "seen" one that doesn't follow the waiting period so you can't say that anymore. I am using the word slave for someone who carries out a task for which he recieves no renumeration. In my country the licenses are not valid and do not allow you run a club without affliating to something that actually is recognised in this country. So therefore these licenses are fake as you cannot use tham legitamately. Unlikely the GKR man's Ferrari which looks more real than a JKA License. All I am saying training in these type of organisations means a steady financial loss, including when you go to the bar it is always your round. They never pay for anything. In the spirit of argueing for the sake of it. Are shotokan insturctors always grumpy because of the finanical loss? Two things...and first and formost we are not grumpy because of the financial losses, I personally dont get paid at all for my teaching and I am very happy with that....most are grumpy simply becaue of the politics that occure in ALL of the organizations and the personal politics that happen when you are not in a big organization. If we all just shut up and trained we would all be much happier. Next...Nakayama is an exceptionally bad reprosentation for your argument. First he was promoted during a period BEFORE the established time frames were put in place. He held a shodan for something like 5-6 years and then held his Nidan for about 5-10 years and jumped through Yondan and finally went from 5th to 8th Dan in a matter of 6 years. This was because at the time ranking was based on a "consensus based" system that allowed for others to rank people higher just based on teaching ability or political power. Nakayama then held his 8th dan from 1961 till the early 1980's when he was promoted to 9th Dan. Nakayama saw the flaw in this type of ranking system and integrated the minimum time system and ranking system we know today. To criticize him and his ranking you need to ignore the fact that he was seen as one of the inovators of Shotokan, a founding father of the JKA (which at the time was THE organization in Japan and outside of Japan) founded the instructor training program, sent instructors around the world to bring shotokan to the world and a whole host of other things that he did to warrent the rank. Again, I am very open to any comments that are leveled at the current JKA or other organizations. I am a JKA guy and love being part of this group, but I realize that it is run by humans and we are all subject to our own issues and we dont always agree on things....but lets get some facts straight when we use people as an example and really put our assumptions and arguments to a test. As far as I know "NOW" 99% of the people will now have to follow the "minimum time in" and I have yet to hear of someone skipping ranks like they did in the old days! And much respect for being very respectful in our "Argument".
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GKR
Dec 13, 2013 23:23:31 GMT
Post by garage on Dec 13, 2013 23:23:31 GMT
Oh dear I have found another one, being younger than me not in the old days. See if you can get the name from the numbers?
Born 1959, 1th dan 1977 so for this person to be 6th Dan this would be 1996 or 1989 for 5th dan yet they arrive in England 1982 6th Dan. Having studied maths I only need to find one exception to win the argument. Interested if you can explain this one away?
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GKR
Dec 14, 2013 0:06:35 GMT
Post by nathanso on Dec 14, 2013 0:06:35 GMT
Oh dear I have found another one, being younger than me not in the old days. See if you can get the name from the numbers? Born 1959, 1th dan 1977 so for this person to be 6th Dan this would be 1996 or 1989 for 5th dan yet they arrive in England 1982 6th Dan. Having studied maths I only need to find one exception to win the argument. Interested if you can explain this one away? I think that I know exactly who you are talking about, but he didn't "arrive in England in 1982 as a 6th Dan." Yes he arrived in England in 1982. However, several sites say that he passed his exam for 6th dan just before being appointed to his current position in 2003. He also became a 7th dan in 2010, which just meets the minimum time in rank for that. That said, there are many examples of relative old-timers going through grades quickly. Ohshima made 3rd dan in 1952 and 5th in 1957. (I give him credit, however. His SKA gives out no grades higher than godan because that was the last grade given out by GF, and he now has many students who he have the same rank that he does.) The best example is Motokuni Sugiura; I pulled this off the JKA website a few years ago: June, 1951 Received the 2nd Dan. Nov. 1953 Received the 3rd Dan Nov. 1957 Received 4th Dan. Dec. 1961 Received 5th Dan Apr. 1963 Received 6th Dan Apr. 1968 Received 7th Dan June 21st 1976 Received 8th Dan. 1991 Was appointed the chief Shihan of the JKA. Apr.1992 Received 9th Dan. Some pretty fast skipping there.
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GKR
Dec 14, 2013 0:24:46 GMT
Post by stevenm on Dec 14, 2013 0:24:46 GMT
This thread has apparently morphed into a replica of 'What is Legit, and why we covet it' in the philosophy section. A plausible (in my view) explanation for accelerated grading is offered in that thread. Personally, I don't care what grade people are. It becomes obvious pretty quickly if they are undeserving of it. This is especially the case with junior Dan grades, which tend to be awarded for technical ability/ physical prowess. After that, it's often not what you know, it's who you know.
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GKR
Dec 17, 2013 13:08:56 GMT
Post by kensei on Dec 17, 2013 13:08:56 GMT
Oh dear I have found another one, being younger than me not in the old days. See if you can get the name from the numbers? Born 1959, 1th dan 1977 so for this person to be 6th Dan this would be 1996 or 1989 for 5th dan yet they arrive in England 1982 6th Dan. Having studied maths I only need to find one exception to win the argument. Interested if you can explain this one away? I think you are confused, I am not saying that it does not happen, I said that Nakayama was an exceptionally bad example. I am sure that you can find several instructors tht ended up grading earlier than they should have. That is the thing with the guidelines, they are guidelines. Now, to destroy any issues we have let me give you an example of my way of thinking. So, we have a "rule" as to time between each rank for minimum times...four examples of how it can work...and see if you can guess whom I am talking about. A) Instructor a Trains all the time, six days a week and often seven, he teaches five days a week and is only away when teaching courses for the organization. He reprosents the organization and has been an avid tournament CHAMPION when he competed. He was moved up in rank on a regular basis recieved his Shodan in 1987 then his nidan in 1988, his Sandan in 1990, yondan 1992 and godan in 1995. He was ranked as Rokudan in 2000. Now, this is shaving off one year between Sandan and Yondan and one year for Yondan to Godan and then finally one year for Rokudan. Total shaved years three years. Pretty run of the mill shaving if he is dedicated and works hard. B)Instructor trains three times a week at the Dojo in his local town, he is in good shape and works hard when in class but does not do any extra training. He used to compete but can not get out of town for tournaments. He attends classes and teaches regularly and goes to camps once a year. He is never called upon to teach at camps or run clinics and he is not the head instructor of his town. Shodan in 1990, Nidan 1993, Sandan 1995, Yondan 1999, Godan 2005 and Rokudan in 2013. This is similar to what most people see if they push to test all the time when appropriate. C)This instructor does not think much of rank, he likes training but is not pushed to get his higher ranks because he is a big fish in a very small pond. he has trained since he was a child and got his Shodan in 1994. His Nidan in 2004 and his sandan in 2013. No rush to get ahead but he trains on his own alot and at the dojo two to three times a week. This is the most likely set up for ranking in Canada and other less Karate populated countries, where rank tends to be lower for 90% of the people that stick to the training. Rank collecting is not as important or available as other countries. D)The last is more GKR-ish than I like. The instructor began training in 2000, got their Shodan in 2003, Nidan in 2005.....Yondan in 2007 and did a rank advancement to 9th Dan when they created their own style in 2010. OR they were a Rokudan and felt they deserved a big boost and went to their students for advancement to 9th dan that year. My point is that A-C are all legit in my mind only D is off the wall crazy and not legit. The thing is that when someone goes to their juniors and asks for rank advancement or does self advancement the legitimate nature of the rank is lost. Also, calling yourself Sensei and wearing a black belt is MOST like D....not legit.
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GKR
Dec 17, 2013 13:15:34 GMT
Post by kensei on Dec 17, 2013 13:15:34 GMT
This thread has apparently morphed into a replica of 'What is Legit, and why we covet it' in the philosophy section. A plausible (in my view) explanation for accelerated grading is offered in that thread. Personally, I don't care what grade people are. It becomes obvious pretty quickly if they are undeserving of it. This is especially the case with junior Dan grades, which tend to be awarded for technical ability/ physical prowess. After that, it's often not what you know, it's who you know. I would say that the first five ranks (Dan level) are or should be about your knowledge and ability. The first three being pure ability and the last two kind of more about knowledge. After the first five its is what you gave back (or who you know) and as such can and should be presented in my mind. Lets call them what they are and really be real about ranking. personally, If you can bring me out on the floor and teach me something new then you have my respect and I dont give a damn about your rank. If you bring me out and show me the SAME OLD STUFF well I still dont care because I happen to enjoy the same old stuff. My concern is when you are ranked higher than me and can not even show me the same old stuff, or some me stuff that is not correct or dangerous. Im picky, I dont care what your paper sheet on your wall says about you, I want to know what you know and can share..that tells me who you are. Now as for the GKR and this is really more about them...their instructors or "Sensei" can not show me anything new because they dont know anything. They are Yellow belts most of the time that are teaching a subject they know nothing about. The founders were looking at the money coming in and that was all. Unlike the JKA and other shotokan, Goju, shito, ext clubs they wanted to grow fast and did not care that the knowledge base was not their, probably because they both had a very shallow understanding of the styles they were merging and did not bother to dig deeper and realize that a junior can not teach the arts to students....just a watery version of Tae bo with out the great music (By great I mean annoying and irritating).
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GKR
Dec 17, 2013 15:57:57 GMT
Post by garage on Dec 17, 2013 15:57:57 GMT
"As far as I know "NOW" 99% of the people will now have to follow the "minimum time in" and I have yet to hear of someone skipping ranks like they did in the old days!"
To continue arguing for the sake of it surely I managed to get it down to 98%?. I enjoyed the discriptions but I guess I do not know enough to play.
I have read the stuff on the websites and they contradict each other. Am the only one that has a problem with lies?
I am respecting so and so wishes, they most made a lot of wishes. Someone sitting opposite says one thing the website says another, They might be great at karate wouldn't trust them to tell the truth.
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GKR
Dec 17, 2013 22:17:04 GMT
Post by Allan Shepherd on Dec 17, 2013 22:17:04 GMT
Why all the bitching!!!!
First of all 5th Dan's who are not 5th Dan's from Gary on another thread and now another Japanese Instructor who has dubious grading credentials!! Why all the guess work and innuendo? Why can't you say Otha?
Is this what the site has resorted to in terms of topic etc. God help us all.
Best Regards Allan
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GKR
Dec 18, 2013 13:17:16 GMT
Post by garage on Dec 18, 2013 13:17:16 GMT
It clearly states arguing for the sake of it, so bitching for the sake of bitching. The site was being poplulated by banana adverts and no one had posted for weeks.
I have been scared due to the lack of activity that I might end up doing the work I am paid to do.
So feel free to post any better topics, as this one is fairly stale anyway.
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GKR
Dec 18, 2013 15:09:38 GMT
Post by kensei on Dec 18, 2013 15:09:38 GMT
LOL, its been entertaining and yes its gone stale. We tended to start this thread about GKR and turned to bitching about rank issues in the JKA.
To bring it back full swing to the GKR, anywone want to comment on Rober Sullivan and his HUGE rise to the rank of Kancho in his own made up style. First off the guy is a lower level Shotokan style and a Goju student that was given his 2nd dan in Goju, never said what rank he got to in a off shot of shotokan. He suddenly opens his own style, makes the whole mish mash of styles and doesnt even pretend to create anything, he just rips things out of each style that he wants to use and does not rename or change anything and promotes himself to first 7th dan and later 8th.
The group is formed he takes in a fellow wash out in the arts to actually teach the Shotokan component, the guy was a nidan in JKA style shotokan and left to be a 6th Dan in GKR.
They teach a system of Karate to juniors and have them wear a black belt with a white stripe to hide their true level of training and then...the cherry on top...dont even know enough about Japanese between the two of them to know that Gokan means "RAPE" in Japanese...yes, different Kanji, but these guys dont know Japanese and probably dont know how to write Gokanryu in Japanese anyways.
I just thank GOD that their is not enough money in Karate in Canada for these guys to come here!
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GKR
Dec 20, 2013 11:26:25 GMT
Post by garage on Dec 20, 2013 11:26:25 GMT
In the spirit of argueing for the sake of it.
I have just put down my copy of "Tao of Jeet Kun Do" and the part " "He suddenly opens his own style, makes the whole mish mash of styles and doesnt even pretend to create anything, he just rips things out of each style that he wants to use and does not rename or change anything and promotes himself "
Seems to apply to Bruce Lee. He never had any real rank in Wing Chun, and the whole of the books has pictures of other styles which he blantantly rips things out of without renaming. Then that is true of most styles. What the difference? Films perhaps, they are not real you know?
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GKR
Dec 20, 2013 15:00:13 GMT
Post by kensei on Dec 20, 2013 15:00:13 GMT
In the spirit of argueing for the sake of it. I have just put down my copy of "Tao of Jeet Kun Do" and the part " "He suddenly opens his own style, makes the whole mish mash of styles and doesnt even pretend to create anything, he just rips things out of each style that he wants to use and does not rename or change anything and promotes himself " Seems to apply to Bruce Lee. He never had any real rank in Wing Chun, and the whole of the books has pictures of other styles which he blantantly rips things out of without renaming. Then that is true of most styles. What the difference? Films perhaps, they are not real you know? Darn it...I so wanted to continue the argument...but I cant..Lee...and I studied his art in my youth a bit...is just about as bad as GKR...with the exception of the whole Pyramid thingy. After I researched a bit and started seeing that Lee stole from every source and often screwed up what he did steel I found that my final thought about Sifu lee...is he never had an original thought in his life! Now Lee stole from and made himself do the techniuqes correctly and really was a master level athlete that worked hard at being athletic and used his gifts of physical mimicry to create a style that was molded out of many sources (and often not well) but he presented it in a great way. Also, lee...as far as I know...never had a pyramid sales force of juniors teaching and sending him money. But other than that...You are correct sir!
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GKR
Dec 21, 2013 8:44:18 GMT
Post by garage on Dec 21, 2013 8:44:18 GMT
Here is a difference www.youtube.com/watch?v=SncapPrTusAThis a video of nunchuk table tennis, I find it entertaining and I struggle to hit the ball once. I cannot walk past an unshaded light bulb without jumping up and smashing it with a front kick. Practicing flying kicks on a trampoline so you can work on form. The one inch punch everyone does that. Electonic nerve stimulation for training, water training. All ideas, that when there was no internet where really useful, all in his books. Do not feel I get anything off gkr other than jealousy, they have more money than me, and I'd rather be training than sitting in an office again. After all for me it is just a Hobby. Perhaps they will publish the GKR fighting Method just like Bruce.
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GKR
Dec 23, 2013 10:33:18 GMT
Post by Bob Davis on Dec 23, 2013 10:33:18 GMT
Ok, this thread seems to have drifted all over the place anyway and I'm not sure that this bit deserves it's own thread (so bare with me there is a relevant point in there somewhere ) I was sent this clip today regarding a "martial arts scammer" however I'm not so sure. I'm not trying to say what is demonstrated isn't total cr*p BUT (having seen a number of similar clips now) I start to have an awful feeling that some of these instructors genuinely believe what they are peddling works, otherwise, if you were a "genuine" scammer (is there such a thing? ) why would you open yourself up to an uncontrolled test of your "powers" knowing you have nothing to offer. Now the serious point here is not about this sort of rubbish but more the intermediate "defence" taught in many genuine martial arts classes. It contains real punching and kicking (sometimes at high speed and with real power) BUT the situation is still one where everyone knows the rules and what is expected of them so it all works fine in dojo. How many of us really pressure test our defence techniques in dojo against a "wildcard" outsider who doesn't know what's expected of them and doesn't conform to the rules. I guess what I'm trying to get at is that all these things are a question of degree, the clip above being at one extreme obviously. And to bring this full circle and back on (the already very loose track) I would say that the idea of assorted associations and their appearance as pyramid schemes is again a question of degree (and intent, which is probably the more important issue). I believe that it is fair to say that pretty well all martial arts groups operate in the pyramid fashion, it's just the way it works, a lot of people give their time willingly (and free of charge) despite the fact than someone is making good money out of it somewhere down the line (the same could be said for most charity organisations I would guess but at some point someone needs to do these things on a "professional" level). Not all cr*p karate groups are a scam, some teaching low level, poor quality karate genuinely believe (like the guy above) that they have something to offer, misguided or not. Conversely, not all scams teach cr*p karate, even in GKR there are (or so I'm lead to believe) some real karate-ka teaching worthwhile karate on a local level, even if the groups practices are a little suspect. This is only out by a small degree from "credible" groups growing by saying "you're a Shodan now, go and open a dojo for us (oh, and send us the fees BTW)". Most new Shodans (and there are exceptions I'll concede) have at best a limited grasp of the basics of karate but are now good enough to teach solo? As I say it's all about degree.
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GKR
Dec 24, 2013 13:45:06 GMT
Post by kensei on Dec 24, 2013 13:45:06 GMT
I completly agree with Bob on this one. While the GKR seem to be on the shady side of things its not to say that the stuff they teach is complete bull pucky! They have good tournament guys and as long as thats what you are looking for, or you luck out and find someone that seems to know a bit about what they are actually teaching, then no harm. my biggest beef is their yellow belts teaching as "Sensei". Aside from this the rest is kind of "over look-able" in my eyes.
I think that someone should only open a club when they are ready, understand the concepts and applications of Karate and also how it can harm others if you dont get the right training in....by harm I mean throwing a kick, not recoiling and damage done to the knee and back.
and as for the NO touch fighter...man that stuff is funny!
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GKR
Dec 24, 2013 15:11:47 GMT
Post by Bob Davis on Dec 24, 2013 15:11:47 GMT
You can tell it's Christmas!! Have a good holiday everyone!
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GKR
Dec 25, 2013 19:02:14 GMT
Post by garage on Dec 25, 2013 19:02:14 GMT
I can't help noticing this thread has the one of the highest number of views. lucky that as Allan says if "God helped us" then we would be left with topics that no wants to read. People loved to bitch and carp.
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