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Post by fujicolt on Feb 4, 2011 13:35:26 GMT
you certainly had a bad case of wind there mate!
Kiba Dachi reknowned weakness in that direction - this is why i think none of the kata implications suggest an attack straight on - even though punches sent that way in several kata
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Post by kensei on Feb 4, 2011 14:18:59 GMT
could not agree more with Steve here, The Kiba dachi is great for side to side stability but it is foolish to think you will be just as stable with front to back pressure! Or you are part of a kratty kid movie and its all fake wind.....but lets face it...when you have the wind...fake or not...no one wants to be around to find out!
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Post by fujicolt on Feb 4, 2011 14:54:54 GMT
steady on there Kensei - I dont think Garage was being 'foolish' he was merely relaying an experience and asking a question
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Post by fujicolt on Feb 4, 2011 15:25:32 GMT
One of my sensei (Steve Cattle RIP) was an ex high level competitive Judoka and his Bunkai for the tekki's contained lots of throws that combined the movements of the legs and stances, timed with the hand techniques = fascinating and (especially when he did them) very efficient BUT never dealing with anything head on or directly behind - damn I miss that man
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Post by guyakuzuki on Feb 5, 2011 6:50:28 GMT
did you climb on the roof with a matress and stand in kiba dachi.. it was the right moment to practice this stance ..... concerning possible applications for the tekki kata:I don't 100% agree that the applications might not work for a front attack.I've read sensei John Burke's book on tekkii shodan for example and I liked his"possible"applications for tekki shodan too(keeping in mind that in the Itosu -Funakoshi era the kiba dachi stance wasn't so deeply executed as it is now).here's a sample of a video from him:http://www.bunkai.co.uk/tekki_shodan_18.html (there's another video on this kata by sensei burke but I can't seem to find it somehow ) osu!
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Post by kensei on Feb 5, 2011 17:10:32 GMT
did not mean to infer that any one person was foolish, it was a general statement. But thanks for making me think about that one Steve! Garage, I was not aiming that statement at you and I hope you realize that. I can be a bit bold, and I wont change that...but please, Unless I say something like "Steve/Garage...you are being foolish" just take it as a general statement!
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Post by guyakuzuki on Feb 5, 2011 17:36:21 GMT
Tried to recreate history and failed. Got my slumberland double davan, woke the dragon(wife) to get the mattress. Climbed up put the mattress on the roof and it slid down the tiles to the gutter then tried to stand on a 45 degree sloping roof hell of a drop to scared to even try. Funakoshi must have been one hell of a guy to manage this. The must unstable kata was Heian Sandan in this stance. If you look at vids seems shakey even without the wind. The 3 tekki where okay, I use a fence post as reference point which puts the wind to one side. I have worn a groove in the ground because I do them in the same place ever day. Thanks for the vid refs interesting.
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Post by fujicolt on Feb 8, 2011 2:07:19 GMT
Kensei no offense taken, hope you continue to take the time to help. I was doubting myself had the image of Funakoshi on the roof couldn't understand why it was so weak. Books and vids take you you so far but you can't walk up and push to see what happens.
Thanks[/b] and herin lies the key - pls everyone re read Yokota Sensei's interview for OUR forum and he basically says ask and ask and ask until satisfied and if that means testing claims about stances etc so be it and LONG may it continue - SHotokan has been 'out in the world' longer than it was just in Japan - tis our right to question and learn - just as the JKA have done ad infinitum but not shared it IMHO
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Post by kensei on Feb 10, 2011 14:07:24 GMT
SHotokan has been 'out in the world' longer than it was just in Japan - tis our right to question and learn - just as the JKA have done ad infinitum but not shared it IMHO I dont know about that. I think the early JKA did nothing but research and share.....and really the "NEW" JKA Does not have an advantage over any other group or country out their. In fact I think in alot of ways they may have to go to us to get some answers about modern sports med and training. The new approach of research and test and research and test is more supported and proped up by modern science brought to them by other countries. However, My own reasearch and thinking on training is that you need to mix the old and then new to get a good program. The new is filled with fax, but lacks heart or spirit, the old is full of spirit but will kill the joints and body over time. Really, we need both the JKA's old ways and the modern science to create better athletes and better "Older" athletes as well. Man Do I need COFFEE!
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Post by fujicolt on Feb 10, 2011 23:58:14 GMT
Really, we need both the JKA's old ways and the modern science to create better athletes and better "Older" athletes as well.
hear hear!
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Post by kensei on Feb 11, 2011 15:23:15 GMT
Really, we need both the JKA's old ways and the modern science to create better athletes and better "Older" athletes as well. hear hear! I think so, I mean the modern athletes tend to be just that Athletes. We need more of the old spirit to training and the feel of the combat. Now it is becoming a game of tag that has no soul! And the old ways tended to put people through a meat grinder and destroy them physically with poor training that was way to hard on them and the results physically were that only a few were improving...many more dropped by the way side. The merger of both science and Budo spirit will bring the next generation more success in my mind. and for us older people it will mean we can train longer, harder and smarter and pass on the proper attitude in training while benefiting more than the last generations have since Karate found sport!
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Post by fujicolt on Feb 11, 2011 15:32:24 GMT
I wonder how many of the modern 'athletes' will continue with Karate study when their competition days are over - i don't mean going on to 'coach' a team i mean real study of this complex art?
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Post by kensei on Feb 11, 2011 16:21:33 GMT
I wonder how many of the modern 'athletes' will continue with Karate study when their competition days are over - i don't mean going on to 'coach' a team i mean real study of this complex art? You have hit on a good point. So many "athletes" drop off over time and leave Karate or move into other combative events and then just become the guy sitting on the coach drinking beer saying "I remember when I Yoko Geri'd myself a meddal at the XYZ event in 19**". They miss the bigger picture and they drop off thinking their shinny trophie means something more than it does. The other issue I have is when people get a black belt and suddently think they did it all in Karate and drop the art completely...saying...well now that I AM a black belt...I dont need to study anymore.....shame it is!
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Post by fujicolt on Feb 11, 2011 20:38:04 GMT
I had a student trained for 3 yrs to get his Shodan - started when he was 12 and hated it - by Shodan he loved it - his parents made him pack in because 'he needed to get achievements in other areas now' - i could not convince them differently. He will be about 40 yrs old now I hope he started again
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Post by fujicolt on Feb 11, 2011 20:40:45 GMT
Going back to Garage's points in the start of the thread - did a class tonight that focused on correct body mechanics and stance structure. a one hr class felt like five minutes - so much to pay attention to but great fun.
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Post by kensei on Feb 11, 2011 21:27:56 GMT
I know what you mean, My instructor worked Kiba Dachi last night for 45 mintues and it felt like a few quick minutes....other than burning thighs and sore feet.
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