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Post by fujicolt on Mar 4, 2011 0:04:53 GMT
speed equals strength and power Bert - not quite understanding yer point that suggests it doesn't and diminishes accurracy can you explain a little pls?
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Post by kensei on Mar 4, 2011 3:09:11 GMT
Few stories that kind of come to mind. One was a TKD Demo that I went and saw were a "Master breaker" had his Demo set up. me and one of my friends grabbed a board and it fell appart, they baked the hall out of them and the breaking demo went silent as we broke the wood simply by flexing it with our hands! When I was a bit younger and we had our own club, we had this Makiwara and we would do 50 reverse punches per hand then do Kata till we were next in line again, this means we would do about 3-4 hundred reverse punches per work out. We had this TKD guy come in and wanted to show he had great hand strikes and wanted to use "baked wood" to demo it...He saw us doing the Makiwara and kind of slunk out realizing that our brown belts could snap his wood like sheets of paper! I was told a story about a JKA instructor in South America who had a demo on TV and he was asked to end the Demo with breaking wood. He did not have any wood with him and asked a TV producer to get two sheets of wood and gave him the dimentions he wanted. The guy did not come back for a while and the demo continued on, when he did show up he did not have pine...the JKA instructor forgot to tell him what kind of wood to get, he ended up coming back with a Red wood that was Hard as Hell....I have been told different kinds of wood but basically it could stop a 22 slug if need be! The instructor had his student mount the wood on a make shift stand and the instructor still managed to break the wood with a front kick...and broke his foot doing it, but he smiled, ended the interview/Demo and left the set before going to the hospital. Breaking is only as good as the intent, material and often it is just show biz magic.....show me a guy that can wack the living tar out of a makiwara or heavy bag, use some pads to bash good techniques out and I will be impressed.
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Post by Paul Bedard on Mar 4, 2011 4:15:06 GMT
The GKR `Kansho` clip is hilarious. The same goof that does kata with no focus or connection, never mind timing & rythm. I wonder if he broke some knuckles?? I have watched demos with the baked boards & it`s hard not to laugh when the boards all almost falling apart before they get hit.. Swa a demo of a guy having a 2" x 2" six foot long board broken over his chest. This board had a 45 degree season check in it ( crack ) so deep that it was starting to break from the swing. Have to agree with the makiwara & heavy bag that James mentioned. Get the heavy bag swinging, hit it as it`s coming back, if it swings away again, you have my attention!! Osu Paul B
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Post by kensei on Mar 4, 2011 15:18:48 GMT
Have to agree with the makiwara & heavy bag that James mentioned. Get the heavy bag swinging, hit it as it`s coming back, if it swings away again, you have my attention!! Osu Paul B BUILD UP TO THAT, Saw a young lad once try this and dislocate his elbow. Nice form and all but he hit the bag at the WRONG time and did not have enough strength in his arm, Sick looking thing actually. I prefer just nailing the sucker with a good Gyaku zuki, if you hand sinks into a strong bag and it moves a little bit that is good. If you push it with your punch that is bad! I am old time kind of guy and prefer hitting things like Makiwara and ....partners.... ;D
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Post by jimlukelkc on Mar 5, 2011 0:52:21 GMT
My old instructor would get us breaking wood for demos`, God knows where he got it but it was invariably damp, knot-ridden and at least 3 inches thick! We broke it because he told us we could. It hurt and I agree proves little apart from the resilience of the human spirit. However it is a great confidence booster and is, if done correctly a measure of focus and technique. Makiwara training is often done incorrectly too resulting in a push rather than an explosive and focused technique. I agree with James, much more impressive to see the bag fold than ricochet away.
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Post by Paul Bedard on Mar 5, 2011 1:55:33 GMT
I don`t know there is something about kicking a bag yoko geri kekomi having it swing away & as it comes back kick it away again. One thing about punching a heavy bag, I like to use fist wraps & bag gloves. Have just bought a set of gloves from `Century` equipment that Chuck Norris endorses, they have a built in wrist support & half fingers, kind of like MMA gloves, so far so good.. James has a good point about building up to hitting a bag with power. Be careful, it is easy to fold your wrist & sprain it!! Osu Paul B
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Post by kensei on Mar 5, 2011 2:44:41 GMT
Paul is right, can not tell you how many students have told me they hurt themselves trying to wammo the bag and did not focus the wrist and "EEEK" It benT!
I dont believe in using wrist wraps and hand pads on a bag, I think you build up to hitting it hard but hte reality is that if you wrap it and blast the bag you will end up with decent power that if you use it on a attacker, you do the same thing that you would on a punching bag.
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Post by jimlukelkc on Mar 5, 2011 9:33:41 GMT
personally I do not use wrist strapping but only because I see bag work as a lighter alternative to makiwara and so try to train the same on both. If we train constantly to try to hit the bag with maximum power with a view to moving the bag, we risk converting the punch to a push, (over-extended kime etc.) When I hit an opponent I want him to drop where he stands not reel away.
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Post by kensei on Mar 5, 2011 14:06:44 GMT
personally I do not use wrist strapping but only because I see bag work as a lighter alternative to makiwara and so try to train the same on both. If we train constantly to try to hit the bag with maximum power with a view to moving the bag, we risk converting the punch to a push, (over-extended kime etc.) When I hit an opponent I want him to drop where he stands not reel away. Good point. When you hit a bag, it should actually not move to much. Your punch should be fast enough and focused enough that the bag "Warps" around the punch and does not get pushed. This is the same as the makiwara, you should hit it hard and fast enough that it "SNAPS" back slightly, not that you push it.
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Post by jimlukelkc on Apr 30, 2011 14:03:46 GMT
I have just re-read my contribution to this thread and have to say I have changed my mind recently about the use of bag gloves. I have recently stepped up my training to the point of doing something Karate related every day and am using heavy bag and speedball all the time. I have found this does not give my hands recovery time and also that if I use bag-gloves I can hit harder without the consequence of stif and painful hands. So, makiwara then bag gloves on!
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Post by fujicolt on Apr 30, 2011 16:36:59 GMT
A wise decision Jim, Especially someone like yourself whom works with his hands. Boxers and Muay Thai Lads having been strapping and padding up for several hundred years! Hope yer well mate! have you a date for your charity event yet?
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Post by tomobrien on May 1, 2011 3:37:51 GMT
Tameshi wara is useful for pin-point accuracy, power & courage My friend Rico Mercado was, arguably, one of the best breakers in the world. He was on the trailer for Wide World of Sports - 'The Thrill of Victory & the Agony of Defeat'. He used to break @ MSG in NYC for the Oriental World of Self Defense run by Aron Banks. I was his holder. Some of the other breakers used to stand gaurd over their material, for obvious reasons. Rico did not bake or alter any of the material he used. His philosophy was that, once you approach the material you break all of it. That meant that if you broke your hand, you used your foot. If that broke you used your forearm etc. We used to hit the makiwara until out knuckles bled/broke. I sometimes abused the use of the makiwara when I was angry I would hit it as hard as I could It does not help arthritis Paul I've been using those same bag gloves that are endorsed by Chuck Norris for many years now. I think they are great! Thanks, Tom
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Post by jimlukelkc on May 2, 2011 17:10:23 GMT
Steve, hi, no date yet but looking at possibly mid June, had some interest and trying to build on that, am hoping to promote it on local radio and the great northern international festival of martial arts on the 5th June.
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Post by fujicolt on May 10, 2011 15:51:09 GMT
really - why?
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Post by tomobrien on May 12, 2011 2:19:26 GMT
I shouldn't even answer you after you left me hanging on the 'oi-zuki' thread. !st you went to eat your BBQ & then this - Remember? "OK Tom I have a few minutes so start with this and I'll keep adding. Stand shoulder width apart and take ten steps forward = normal natural walking. Then 10 steps backward normal natural movement. really 'Feel' the moves kineasthetically and concentrate on the feel of how your musculature and joints etc are working! when done let me know please!" (I did - so you should go back to that thread) Anyway - tameshi wara really requires that you hit the right spot. More so than with a heavy bag or makiwara. You have to hit the material hard enough to break it & you have to have the jewels to do it. People don't do it anymore because, if not done properly, you receive a very painful result. Thanks, Tom
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Post by kensei on May 12, 2011 13:16:43 GMT
I must be lost. All the breaking I have ever seen was with baked boards, you could hit those suckers with a cool breeze and they would break! never saw much in the "Show breaking" that impressed me!
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Post by tomobrien on May 17, 2011 1:52:10 GMT
James, I'm sorry you have never seen or experienced real tameshiwara. Unfortunately 'carny tricks' have had a disparaging effect on breaking. I can assure you that I have seen my share of phonies. There were guys at the 'Oriental World of Self Defense', put on by Aron Banks @ MSG who stood gaurd over their material. Because if you bumped into the stuff it would turn to dust before your eyes. Rico Mercardo was not a phony. He did not treat his material. When done properly there can be benefits. There can also be injuries. I once stopped a guy from breaking 2 boards that were criss-crossed over the grain. He was gonna break it with his head! Thanks, Tom
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Post by kensei on May 18, 2011 12:56:59 GMT
Hey Tom,
I have been told of one real breaking stunt and accidentally caused a near riot at one.....go figure.
My instructor told me about a Japanese instructor who was on TV in Brazil or some other south american country, my instructor was down their with the JKA on a tour. The TV guy asked if he could break a peice of wood and the JKA instructor (might have been Tanaka or Mori) agreed. they went out and got him a peice of wood to break with out him approving or telling them anything....well they brought back a 2 by 4 of red wood...probably could stop a gun shot if need be. He was on the air and had to break it...he got a few students to hold it and kicked the damn thing, first time his foot bounced off the wood and he switch stepped fast and blasted thru it with his other foot! Turns out the wood sprung just enough because of his students that it absorbed alot of the first kick but the wood was solid and he had broken his foot, but he switch stepped and his students now held the wood solid and he broke it...but could not continue on with the tour as his foot needed surgery.
Second one was here in Winnipeg, some local TKD guys were doing a demo at a festival we have called folklarama. Me and a senior were watching the TKD demo and happen to be by the pile of wood they were using. He picked up a board and was told to put it down right away, he did and it snapped as it landed! I laughed and grabbed a few and smacked them together, they broke with ease. Turns out that they were baked and half way sawn in two. the instructor doing the demo got real mad and all his students started yelling and rushing us.
We left fast.
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Post by tomobrien on May 19, 2011 2:22:12 GMT
The guys @ the Oriental World of SD were the same way. They stood gaurd over their baked wood & concrete blocks & their salted & wired ice. I like this though - Thanks, Tom
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Post by kensei on May 19, 2011 11:53:04 GMT
I have actually read on line about TKD and "american Karate" Guys making their own bricks. Wonder if they were of "House building" quality
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Post by fujicolt on May 20, 2011 19:46:19 GMT
James - why did you leave fast - for fear of hurting them?
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Post by kensei on May 20, 2011 20:14:28 GMT
James - why did you leave fast - for fear of hurting them? Splinters...damn things are bad when the woods dried out ;D
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Post by fujicolt on May 20, 2011 21:20:33 GMT
Yer daft sod! PMSL!
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Post by kensei on May 23, 2011 21:31:50 GMT
PMSL??
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Post by fujicolt on Jun 2, 2011 1:25:12 GMT
P*ss*d my self Laughing! ;D
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