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Post by fujicolt on Sept 11, 2011 3:54:20 GMT
I'm sorry but i'm just not havin this - total twonk! Watch it all including Ki knockdowns Oh Dear! Now I suspect that'll get me in trouble!
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Post by superjock on Sept 11, 2011 10:21:58 GMT
I'm sorry but i'm just not havin this - total twonk! Watch it all including Ki knockdowns Oh Dear! Now I suspect that'll get me in trouble! I'll be quite happy for him to try that on me.
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Post by Bob Davis on Sept 11, 2011 11:28:33 GMT
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Post by jimlukelkc on Sept 11, 2011 11:56:52 GMT
Well I reckon what we have here is a mixture of blatant cooperation , conscious or otherwise, timing and also if you notice when he affecting the balance it is always 45 degrees to the little toe that force is applied. That takes very little force to cause your opponent to lose balance. It is all done to influence a credulous audience and is one of the reasons traditional MA is often ridiculed. Grown men for Gods sake!
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Post by nathanso on Sept 12, 2011 5:57:59 GMT
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Post by kensei on Sept 12, 2011 12:49:16 GMT
To be fair, if well intoxicated I can see a few of these as being real. I mean me being drunk or the attackers that is Seriously, this is tripe, complete crapola. I once had an argument on line with a guy that was a pressure point KI KO artist and I argued with him till I told him I would pay him 5K if he flew up to winnipeg and was able to KO me with out touching me, 1K if he used touch KO's and if he could not KO me then...it was my turn and no money. I am fairly sure I can do the job "WITH TOUCH and with out Ki" These guys use mass hypnosis (read they stick around guys that are fooling themselves and easily fooled). My only suggestion to make money off these guys, find out where they are giving their "showcase" and then go in with a great picth and something to sell, all the marks that are standing about getting taken in by that fool will probably buy your stuff at a huge mark up! Seriously, been to a "Ki" demonstration and felt nothing, an Aikido guy tried to throw me and could not and the guy that tried to KO me got spat on when I started laughing....my bad. Embarassing and telling of these pooor dupes.
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Post by fujicolt on Sept 12, 2011 13:37:28 GMT
Jim Luke hit it on the nail it is this kinda stuff that gets genuine MA ridiculed because they think we all believe this nonsense and as Jim James shows it is seriously wanting when challenged - NO NEED to spit on the guy though you Bully PMSL and spat on me compooter! ;D
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Post by fujicolt on Sept 12, 2011 17:18:05 GMT
Heard an expression that IMHO sums up Harada's Senior students and the way they propogate these 'myths' =
'Entertaining the Preposterous!'
I know he is considered by some to be 'a legend - but in my 'good faith' opinion he seems to be 'A legend in his own *Garden!' *well cultivated
and despite totally understanding Jim Luke's point about 45% to the big toe (known in most arts that involve throwing and takedowns) I still believe they are simply being compliant.
However, I wish to add - if it was Jim Luke doing it I would be far more convinced - he really can throw people about!
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Post by fujicolt on Sept 12, 2011 17:27:06 GMT
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Post by tomobrien on Sept 13, 2011 2:43:43 GMT
ha, ha, ha, ha, hardy har har ;D I love it ha, ha ha ;D It's great fun to watch Ha, ha! Thanks, Tom
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Post by garage on Sept 17, 2011 7:37:01 GMT
Master Harada was awarded a 5th Dan (1956) personally by Gichin Funakoshi (O'Sensei) the founder of modern day Karate-do on mainland Japan. The Shotokai were officially formed by the Funakoshi family, in order to, take care of Gichin Funakoshi's funeral arrangements. It contained his closest and most senior students, to whom he trusted the continual development of his Shotokan Karate. As a result of political and personal disputes after the passing of O'Sensei, the Shotokai remained as a group that taught and developed Karate-do, as Gichin Funakoshi had intended. www.karatedoshotokai.com/viewArticle.php?article=8Still alive in Cwmbran UK so we can still tell him to his face and ask if we wanted to.
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Post by fujicolt on Sept 17, 2011 13:26:40 GMT
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Post by kensei on Sept 17, 2011 23:50:01 GMT
First off B-man....I think thats the wrong Harada. The Harada in the UK is much older than the "Gent" who is extending his Ki and blowing guys over...why do I feel dirty after saying that Also, the Shotokai was formed rather before Funakoshi Sensei passed and the historica Dogma is BS. I know for a fact that JKA guys were Funakoshi palbearers at his funeral. The whole BS that they were barred or skipped it because they had their undies in a twist is bull pucky! And anyone that thinks its true has been drinking the cool ade and not researching on their own..... speaking of Cool ade, I am fairly sure that the Harada from the Shotokai would think its the same pile of swat that we do!
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Post by garage on Sept 18, 2011 5:50:03 GMT
www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpWW623eQYIThis is a clip from the bbc the finest broadcasting company in the world that says he has an MBE and is 78 a living legend. If you look at the two videos they both have the same cheeky smile. They also seem to be moving in a like fashion. Enough for me to believe the person towards the end of the first video is the same person. What do you think?
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Post by fujicolt on Sept 18, 2011 13:19:53 GMT
I am confident they are the same person and I am sorry I still believe that the techniques he is demonstrating WOULD NOT work against a NON compliant adversary. lets even put it on a par - Shiria or Kanazawa sensei attacking him - Good Grief!
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Post by Paul Bedard on Sept 18, 2011 17:01:09 GMT
But, but; I know some guys that when they breathe on you, it drives you about 10 ft back!!! Paul B
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Post by stevenm on Sept 18, 2011 18:20:58 GMT
Oh dear. It would appear that in his later years, he's gone a bit 'Egami'.
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Post by garage on Sept 19, 2011 6:23:56 GMT
"as Gichin Funakoshi had intended."
If we consider the Gospal that is "Karate-do My way of life" by Funakoshi which most people here except without question. There are a number of supernatrual claims in there.
The story of asking the student to get on attack him as he was sensing the intend and it was keeping him awake.
A 5ft 4in small person winning 6 successive arm wresting contests using his "strength".
A karate trained woman will overcome a larger male attacker without question.
In a 1922 Mr Funakoshi clearly bends at the waist and drags his leg before going upright before performing a downward block. Would he headbutt a fist whilst blocking a kick?
Both these players contain "twonk" but it seems twonk becomes fact when you die.
Are we open minded or not?
So Shotokai the true way, Shotokan the sport who is open minded enough to consider that?
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Post by fujicolt on Sept 19, 2011 11:33:01 GMT
Garage - please read my posts carefully - I have been quite clear about what i consider to be twonk and I stand by that opinion.
In an effort to be fair and show balance I have been contacted by a Shotokan Karateka friend of mine whom I trust totally and he has informed me that he has trained with some Shotokai Seniors. (this was over an extended period)
He is clear that he has witnessed Shotokai 5th Dan's whom do have good fighting skills - Flowing technique, good timing and an ability to hit very hard - he particularly was impressed with Tony Lima. He also is clear that some of these 5th Dans DO have an ability to 'off balance' you with the timing of their interceptions etc.
He comments that he believes that good fighting skills in Shotokai seem to take much longer to achieve and usually manifests itself around 5th Dan.
I am very willing to accept all of this but still stand by my challenge re: the No contact Knock you over stuff* . My friend in all the time he trained with them never witnessed this stuff so cannot really comment.
* Also I have personally witnessed Karateka that have an ability when sparring with them to 'Change your intent' with a movement or even facial expression. Enoeda Sensei being the most potent I have seen but also Steve Cattle, Terry Oniell, Dave Hazard and Ticky Donovan but I believe this is more a psychological thing and your sense that they could really hurt you if they wished to so you are naturally cautious with attacks - Until that is, you have been training under them for a while and come to understand that they are so skilful they would never take a cheap shot and actually want you to attack them with full intent so they can help you learn.
So to finish. I am not anti Shotokai but am very anti any claims that Twonk works!
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Post by kensei on Sept 19, 2011 12:27:35 GMT
www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpWW623eQYIThis is a clip from the bbc the finest broadcasting company in the world that says he has an MBE and is 78 a living legend. If you look at the two videos they both have the same cheeky smile. They also seem to be moving in a like fashion. Enough for me to believe the person towards the end of the first video is the same person. What do you think? My mistake, I actually shut that crap off before it got to him....watched the whole thing again...now I am twice as shocked and depressed....To think...Harada has lost his mind is a sad day, and even more so that so many Shotokai students are missing out on buying my bridge in San Fran
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Post by kensei on Sept 19, 2011 12:39:01 GMT
If we consider the Gospal that is "Karate-do My way of life" by Funakoshi which most people here except without question. There are a number of supernatrual claims in there. The story of asking the student to get on attack him as he was sensing the intend and it was keeping him awake. Not sure if that was mystical or just an exerienced instructor who knew that the persons charactor and intent. If I felt someone wanted to punch me (Read my wife...all the time) I will let her know that she is wanting to punch me and she normally laughs. I also will tell people when sparring with them that they are going to kick or punch and they get mad because I have learned how to read someone...not a mystical trick...experience! A 5ft 4in small person winning 6 successive arm wresting contests using his "strength". My Grand father was a Welsh man that came back after World War Two minus an arm, he stood a solid 5 foot 5 and beat 10 guys in a bar arm wrestling after he lost his good arm! Mystical...hell now that bugger was strong as a friggin bull and still ran a butchers shop with one friggin arm! Nothing special their. Oh, and one story about him....he KO'd a heavy weight champion with one punch in a bar fight....when he had ONE ARM! granted the boxer was american and my Pops was Welsh...a decidedly horrible disadvantage for the boxer I assure you! A karate trained woman will overcome a larger male attacker without question. My wife puts me in my place all the time...my mom is 4 foot 9 and put my brother in his place...he was 6 foot 4(different dads). I have seen smaller women pound on bigger guys my whole life...nothing mystical...some attitude and also the woman in question also trained in Sumo...we can assume she was built like a bull! In a 1922 Mr Funakoshi clearly bends at the waist and drags his leg before going upright before performing a downward block. Would he headbutt a fist whilst blocking a kick? I can not count how many times I had to "let" someone punch me in the head when I was working door...better the forehead than the nose or chin! Nothing special here, just a smart old fighter using a dirty trick! Are we open minded or not? I am very open minded, however I am not blind! I dont think that what these guys are doing is Karate...or real for that matter. Funakoshi also had a story about a man that said he could RIP the flesh from his bones and when he tried it, Funakoshi said it was mostly a pinch and that was all. I think Funakoshi would be rolling over cartwheels in his grave right about now if not for the fact that he was cremated! So Shotokai the true way, Shotokan the sport who is open minded enough to consider that? Shotokan may have become more of a sport...but at least we dont engage in fantasy...well for the most part...the way that this group does...whats next sword fighting because they are all Samurai...mighty pale Samurai of the English variety I must say. This video truely shows how far from the true starting point some have wandered....we all have moved on and forwards to some degree...I am not sure "on and forwards" is the direction this camp has moved!
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Post by kensei on Sept 19, 2011 12:41:21 GMT
Like steve said, Not anti-Shotokai....Anti Twonk...and by Twonk I am guessing we mean "Crap that is crazy from the start and gets weirder as you watch it"!
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Post by fujicolt on Sept 19, 2011 15:41:25 GMT
Like steve said, Not anti-Shotokai....Anti Twonk...and by Twonk I am guessing we mean "Crap that is crazy from the start and gets weirder as you watch it"! Elikwentli poot Syr!
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Post by kensei on Mar 29, 2012 12:32:37 GMT
was rewatching this again the other day as a friend sent it to me via email. The truely sad part is that they filmed it and others now think that is what we do....A quick correction and a "that is NOT what I do" with a nasty face set him straight however....
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