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Post by superjock on Oct 11, 2011 18:26:26 GMT
I have just posted this on my blog, thought I would share it here. It is the precursor to a theme of taking control over your own training.
How many times have I read this of late? All over the internet the reality gurus are on the attack ''karate doesn't work in fact it is dangerous to think it does.'' ''All karate teachers are fakes'' ''If you think you are learning to defend yourself you are kidding yourself.'' These guys usually back up their claims by showing clips of MMA or some other reality based guru doing his thing on pads. They also show clips of competition sparring which to be fair is pretty lame these days.
Right first up karate, MMA, self-protectionism, reality base pad work if in the hands of somebody who trains once per week who doesn't try when they are in class and doesn't practise outside, just will not work. MMA at top level is hard out and I take my hat off to these (top level) exponents however if you are looking for a self-defence 'magic bullet' it will not be found there or anywhere else for that matter.
Karate is more than fighting. I can teach you all the techniques you will ever need to know about self defence (fighting) in half an hour. All you need is 5 simple effective techniques. Your choice. To be able to make them work is your job. Practise, hit things and condition your body (read strengthen) to be able to use these 5 techniques. Train these and nothing else. Boring eh.
3 Rules for Self Protection In order to be able to protect yourself ; 1. Avoid trouble and places where trouble lurks. 2. Train hard and smart just incase. 3. Rule 1. applies always.
There is more to karate than fighting. Go look.
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Post by kensei on Oct 12, 2011 12:11:00 GMT
Ironic, When self "protection" people first came out they were TKD guys that were looking for a new market. Now they are Krav Maga guys looking for new markets. I dont normally teach "SD" classes, and the times I have I say right off the bat "SD" classes dont work! the reason being is that you train for a few hours to a few days and then you go and try to remember it under stress months and months later...its crap! The guys they show on the pads that are so damn impressive and the guys they show doing the fancy (which will be the quickest and most efficient way to get your arse handed to you) Techniques are those that practice these fancy circus moves day in and day out to PERFORM them for the students. Its just a different brand of snake oil from the old TKD crap! Facts of self defence.... 1. Self defence is 80% attitude, intellegence and mental conditioning and 20% physical ability. 2. the 80% mental conditioning is basically not panicing and not being scared to hurt someone else. 3. that 20% physical ability is very important, but with out the mind set to pull the trigger the gun is of little use! 4. it does not matter if you are a Karate-ka, Judoka, Aikidoka or a Krav maga guy/gal...if you can defend yourself the tools will just say how...not if! 5. 90% of people who get attacked look and act like victims before, during and after the attacks. How often do you hear about a victim fighting back? Thats it, those people putting down Karate to try and sell more SD seats in their class are just using their marketing effectivly. The truth is that a student that is not tallented in Karate will not become a Raging Self Protection machine if they take up some kind of Self defense training. To think such a thing proves how silly and stupid you may actually be!
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Post by fujicolt on Oct 12, 2011 20:32:36 GMT
Nakayama sensei stated 'I can teach you karate but i can't teach you to fight - that's down to you'
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Post by tomobrien on Oct 16, 2011 2:14:30 GMT
James said it - If you don't have the b@lls to hit somebody you can train all you want but you still can't defend yourself Thanks, Tom
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Post by kensei on Oct 17, 2011 12:39:19 GMT
The "Krav Maga ultra defense" guys are just the latest in a long list of Kratty guys that are here to sell you salvation in four very easy classes.
Their product is repackaged Tae bo that was once Tae Kwon Do and before that Kraty and before that Kung Fuy!
Face it we will always have half baked morons out their that have little to no concept of true martial arts who will sell the rights to heaven and earth to make a buck! Hell the Church did it way back when, this is just the common mans version of it.
Truth be told, the only thing that really hurts is that they take good students and make sceptics and sinics of them. I wish they only took advantage of the other nut bars out their....any one seen the GKR head doing Kata or Bunkai as of late? Let the dilusional and immature go and train with him for a while and let the real potential students come and train in a real Dojo!
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Post by Paul Bedard on Oct 18, 2011 4:22:29 GMT
I so enjoy reading James posts. There is just no confusion as to what he is trying to say.. Osu Paul B
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Post by kensei on Oct 18, 2011 11:57:55 GMT
I so enjoy reading James posts. There is just no confusion as to what he is trying to say.. Osu Paul B I pull no punches, I dont appologize for having a brain and I surely dont feel bad calling out the witch doctors, snake oil sales men and frauds out their. I once took a self defense class as a security manager in a company I worked for and got kicked out for making the instructor look bad. The guy was a TKD guy trying to teach Aikido principles......badly...and tried to throw me as a "guest" who "volunteered" to be his "willing" subject. He was six foot two and I am...well not. He tried to throw me and after he failed twice I swept him and threw a punch at his face. He asked me to leave Seriously, Self defense/protection is not a week end program you take once and its like getting a gun licence. IF you dont keep the skills sharp you end up looking the fool as you get your wallet taken and more than likly your life. Better a live fool whom is safe than a dead one! Anyone that sells a self defense program that will make you a safe person in less than a week end an you never have to take tune up classes....yah stupid. Or, how about a class that teaches you how to take a gun away from someone....that class is teaching you how to do the single most stupid thing of your life...and something that if tried will be done....right at the last moment of your life. Try and take my gun from me and you will find a nice neet hole in your chest and the game...she is over! I actually saw some putz trying to teach a young girl how to bridge a 12 foot gap, disarm a attacker and then KO him. The fault in the whole thing is....at 12 feet my finger twitching kills you quicker than you can cross the 12 feet...unless of course the plastic gun I have is what the attacker will put up against you.....and the second flaw in the set up...the young girl was about 90 pounds lighter than the attacker and used TKD stuff on the guy that never would have worked! From this point on all Canned self defense programs were and are crap to me and anyone teaching them....well they are almost as bad as the real attackers...they just figured a better way to get your money!
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Post by fujicolt on Oct 18, 2011 12:19:05 GMT
James J blunt and to the point Paul - don't be so unkind he is the most polite, non argumentative guy - on wednesdays from 11 pm to 11.02 pm after that I agree with yer LMAO! back to the thread - if Karate doesn't work = I would have been killed several times in my work! Gulp!
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Post by tomobrien on Oct 19, 2011 2:45:19 GMT
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Post by fujicolt on Oct 19, 2011 11:15:07 GMT
Tis a hybrid style club - Blue Gi's with white stripes etc. Other than that i know little about them.
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Post by kensei on Oct 19, 2011 12:35:16 GMT
Good Karate Training works if used properly with a tad bit of luck and alot of mental training and prep.
Bad Karate training does not work ever, and self defense courses simply make more entertaining victims for muggers, murderers and rapists.
Train with impact training, real sparring ideas and lots of mental training and you are on the right path....tae bo and Krav Maga simply make you fitter for the pine box.
Nuff said.......
Oh, and its 11 pm till 11:01..and I am a real crabby dude at 11:02!
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Post by fujicolt on Oct 19, 2011 23:32:14 GMT
How can we say that Karate is a life long study and sell 4 hour courses to claim to achieve the same outcome = an ability to defend oneself!?
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Post by Syl Walsh on Dec 4, 2011 19:45:57 GMT
Perhaps Sport Karate will not work! But real Karate-Do does "superjock"
Your problems are only as big as you make them. They can seem like a ripple, or a tidal wave. But your always the only one who creates it.
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Post by fujicolt on Dec 5, 2011 2:45:10 GMT
Perhaps Sport Karate will not work! But real Karate-Do does "superjock" Your problems are only as big as you make them. They can seem like a ripple, or a tidal wave. But your always the only one who creates it. I mean no disrespect Shogunsan but I think a little less philosophy and a little more of dealing with some of the situations I have might make you rethink your thinking! Did the I year old baby raped and battered recently create that tidal wave - i think not.... and lets all admit it wouldn't we have shown with no questions afterwards - that Karate does work: if we had had the chance to protect that child?
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Post by superjock on Dec 5, 2011 3:07:16 GMT
Perhaps Sport Karate will not work! But real Karate-Do does "superjock" Your problems are only as big as you make them. They can seem like a ripple, or a tidal wave. But your always the only one who creates it. So what in your opinion is 'real karate' Shogunsan?
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Post by kensei on Dec 5, 2011 15:06:25 GMT
First off half the Dojo prancing I have seen is great for tournaments and for showing off, but will get you in deep waters very quickly if you are not careful.
Secondly, for those with great technique in the dojo let me tell yer a small story....
When I was in the service we had a guy that was a 'Dead eye'. He could shoot the C out of a coke bottle at a fair distance and was seen as one of the best shots in our troop! I however was not such a great shot. I pretty much was a 50/50 kind of guy, the closer you got to me the better chance of me hitting the target.
My drill Sgt. told me he would much rather have me and my friend, another NOT SO DEAD EYE on his side than "Cliff, the dead eye" because he would rather have guys who were rough around the edges but willing to pull the trigger than a guy who had killer (pardon the pun) accuracy but did not like the idea of hitting a live target.
Point being these fancy guys in blue and red gis can look great in a club, I know of a guy who is a demon sparring, but throw him a self defense situation with no rules and real life consiquences and he would fould.
the worst part is most of these Dojo warriors think they are going to have no issues on the streets........and they teach like that.
J
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Post by superjock on Dec 6, 2011 18:14:26 GMT
Skills, strategy and tactics can be learned at the dojo. These are the tools. Owning a chainsaw doesn't make you a forester.
Mastery of these tools and how to apply them is your journey. Self research & discovery are the keys. Dojo lessons should only be a small % of your karate study i.e. not all of it. The largest portion is carried out by yourself.
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Post by kensei on Dec 7, 2011 13:33:41 GMT
Skills, strategy and tactics can be learned at the dojo. These are the tools. Owning a chainsaw doesn't make you a forester. Mastery of these tools and how to apply them is your journey. Self research & discovery are the keys. Dojo lessons should only be a small % of your karate study i.e. not all of it. The largest portion is carried out by yourself. Even beyond that I would say that owning a chain saw means you could become a forester, or a chainsaw artist....or a crazy leather faced killer. The choice is yours! Having done research and perfected your skills means that you have skills and knowledge... Back to shooting again...you could be a dead eye, be able to break down and clean your rifle in seconds, know how it works, why it works and how to use it...but when faced with a target that breaths, has blood going through him and possibly children and a wife at home...will you use it? Far to many great shots were killed in war because they simply did not have it in them to actually use it!
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Post by malk103 on Dec 26, 2011 19:30:56 GMT
..........Self research & discovery are the keys. Dojo lessons should only be a small % of your karate study i.e. not all of it. The largest portion is carried out by yourself. I totally agree, I personally think that anyone who reaches Purple belt level should start to realise that an hour or two a week will not really teach you anything useful. If they don't get this message then hopefully they will belong to a club that promotes on merit and not time served.
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Post by Gaz Lee on Jan 17, 2012 0:29:21 GMT
i posted this on another link but think it would be more suitable here:- for me karate is as much about self discipline as self defence! i trained hard, 3 times a week for 5 years religiously! not to compete but because i wanted to be good at it, i did however enter one competition as teenager and won 1st place, (trumpets please) but stopped training a year after gaining shodan, i felt i'd hit a peak and wasnt progressing any further, (i was young and nieve) so i started kick boxing for a bit fun, then boxing, and now i have returned to karate. i think as you as reach dan grade you have to train with intent, as you should be training alongside very capable karateka and have a duty to enhance eachothers training by putting in full effort, a key principle of karate in my book! and you''ll never know if you could use in real life situations unless you have to, unforunately i did once, and i found it very effective! my counter attacks came naturally due to the hard training but i try to focus on the self discipline more than the self defence. and basically you get out of it what you put into it! and as for TKD my son does it (much to my disgust but he's not aware) however he's only 7 and theyve told him he'll be a black belt by the time he's 10 and double graded him, so when he thinks he's mastered that ill bring him to a proper dojo, at least he'll be flexible by then!
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Post by Gaz Lee on Jan 17, 2012 18:52:49 GMT
when i reached purple belt, 5 step kumite stepped up a gear big time, my seniors where like... right im coming at you jodan, and if you dont step back and block quick enough... you wont be drinking hot tea tonight! as fat lips and hot tea dont mix! it definately sharpens your skills! and so i'd pass that down onto the next grades, get them concentrating and moving faster! of course i never would hit them, but they didnt know that!
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Post by kensei on Jan 17, 2012 19:23:19 GMT
See and I always got hit doing Chudan lots so I "tag" juniors...just enough to have them open their eyes a bit!
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Post by tomobrien on Jan 18, 2012 3:53:14 GMT
I'm havin trouble drinkin the hot tea tonight! Sometimes when sparring/jiyu kumite I try to stop & show/make a point. I yelled stop to show how I did a sweeping block (nagashi uke) & counter punch & got punched in the mouth. Next Time I gotta yell yame & duck at the same time ??? Thanks, Tom
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Post by nathanso on Jan 18, 2012 6:19:39 GMT
Do you think yelling "duck" is going to help?
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Post by malk103 on Jan 18, 2012 10:57:54 GMT
when i reached purple belt, 5 step kumite stepped up a gear big time, my seniors where like... right im coming at you jodan, and if you dont step back and block quick enough... you wont be drinking hot tea tonight! as fat lips and hot tea dont mix! it definately sharpens your skills! and so i'd pass that down onto the next grades, get them concentrating and moving faster! of course i never would hit them, but they didnt know that! I think someone on here has mentioned using this technique - probably Steve (fujicolt) - there was also a method of not warning them exactly "when" you are going to attack to sharpen their reflexes. I believe this is a good method as it makes it more real, if you were in a real situation and you thought someone was about to hit you then you wouldn't know exactly when (unless they gave you an unconscious hint) and you would certainly know that if you didn't move/block then you were going to get hit! Next time i'm training with appropriate adults I intend to put this to the test.
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Post by Gaz Lee on Jan 24, 2012 23:48:50 GMT
we used to do that to! it surely promotes concentration! reflex & speed! wich is needed in kumite and real life.
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Post by fujicolt on Jan 25, 2012 9:12:50 GMT
Don't forget folks that under UK Law (and I expect the same for most nations) IF you genuinely percieve imminent danger YOU are allowed to make a pre-emptive strike. I'll try and find some rulings on it so you can better understand the legal concept - I know it exists because many years ago I had an incident on the Doors and a following trial. I was judge innocent by Jury (and the judge had more or less instructed them to thier decision) as acting in self defence when a Gang of blokes on a stag night tried to storm entry into the nightclub after being refused. I nutted the leader when he fronted me as I genuinely 'sensed' he was about to attack!
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Post by Allan Shepherd on Jan 25, 2012 9:51:04 GMT
Still trawling through postings and came across Kensei's post relating to 80%-20% split regarding his facts of self defence in October 2011. The best 100% of self defence is not being there in the first place!!!
How many people do you know that go out and put themselves into positions/predicaments that they know are going result in them being banjoed. I appreciate we all cannot stay at home so to speak but surely common sense prevails 100% of the time whilst we are awake?
Best Regards Allan
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Post by kensei on Jan 25, 2012 15:32:58 GMT
Statistically most people get attacked in darker areas, after dark, in common areas when their are less people....IE a parking building after dark when all the office workers have gone home...last one out to go home is the target of the mugger!
Slowest gazelle gets eaten I guess. It does not mean that the person said to themselves "Hey self...lets be the last person out of the building". And most attacks happen in places that are NOT back ally ways and bad areas of the city that you KNOW to avoid. YES their are a fair number of them their as well...but the majority are not.
Also, in Winnipeg Canada...my city...we get a tone of sun light in the summer (from 6 am to 10:30 pm) but in the winter its a lot less (from 9:30 am to 5:30 pm). And we have more crime in the winter months whent he sun light is less....Simply because the buggers that are mugging people have more "cover of night".
Its not that people put them selves in the situations...to spin a phrase..."Situations happen" ;D
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Post by jimlukelkc on Jan 27, 2012 12:47:07 GMT
Karate does not work? Depends what you want it to do. As the beginning of this thread mentioned, MMA practioners at times will denigrated traditional ma in order to prmote themselves as "ultimate fighters", totally disragrding the fact that they are bound by rules and often the focus of their technique is to go to ground as quickly as possible to gain advantage. Training to rules and going to ground where there is a danger of more than one assailant having a go will get you maimed or killed! The same can be said of tournament karate and many aspects of basic training, that does not mean they have no validity, just that you need to be aware of realities and decide where your focus should be. Your training interests may lie solely in competition and the passing of grades, that is is fine as long as you do not delude yourself into thinking your are street-ready cos you aint! Most the the people I meet in martial arts are decent people who do not deliberatley put themselves in danger or indulge in macho displays when under the influence of alchohol. Situations arise and surely that is what we ultimately train for? "Walk softly and carry a big stick!" However, if your self-defence traing emphasises jodan kicks, wrist/arm locks or esoteric nerve strikes then go elsewhere1 it is patent nonsense. These should be secondary studies, fine motor skills go out of the window when stressed, gross motor skills are whats required, then drilled over and over under stress. Maybe then you will stand a chance of not ending up as pavement garnish.
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