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Post by fujicolt on Nov 1, 2010 1:54:06 GMT
Over the years i have, whenever possible, taken the opportunity to train with other styles. I have always found it to be a pleasent and informative process. However, i have heard Shotokan bods whom have not trained elsewhere say things like 'Wado Ryu - it's to soft and has no power' have a little looks at this then: www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVQFXLYyY3c&feature=player_embeddedtell me that isn't functional karate
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Post by tomobrien on Nov 4, 2010 1:01:02 GMT
I met some Wado guys in Florida, 2 yrs. ago at the Niseido Hombu Dojo that were all tuf customers. Nothing but respect for the Wado guys I worked out with. Nothing soft about them methinks. Thanks, Tom
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Post by fujicolt on Nov 4, 2010 16:03:21 GMT
I've worked the Doors with Wado Lads and they were excellent and more than up for it. I have also fought many Wado guys and they loved a rumble. I have also had the privilege of training with Senior Wado Instructors (such as Suzuki Sensei) here in the UK - it was great.
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Post by grunners4 on Nov 5, 2010 7:49:49 GMT
how did you find the kumite? for me, during kata you are obviously taking in new information and different stances, body movement, contraction, techniques etc but the moment kumite started you couldn't really tell who was a goju, shito or wado man.
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Post by fujicolt on Nov 5, 2010 10:23:30 GMT
I know what you mean Andrew. In the UK their used to be a massive All-Styles Tournament Circuit - the CHP TOURNAMENTS. Quite literally just about every style would be represented over the years events (including Korean and Chinese Systems, Hybrids and the Major Styles)
on a humorous and purely fun note we used to say you could tell each styles by the following:
Wado - almost invariably huge Black Guys from the midlands with hands like spades and feet like canoes Shukokai - undoubtedly the largest Badges (reguiring a back pack full of batteries to illuminate) Kung Fu etc - wonderful brightly coloured satin suits Tae Kwon Do - supple as hell and padded to the eyeballs Goju - short stances and no reverse gear Shotokan - no padding, a home made gumshield, blood on their |Gi and ugly as hell due to broken noses and lack of teeth.
However - and i mean this sincerely - the wonderful thing is that everyone fought like hell but of the Arena got on very well indeed.
A sadly missed Era in UK Karate.
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Post by grunners4 on Nov 5, 2010 14:01:29 GMT
I have also had the privilege of training with Senior Wado Instructors (such as Suzuki Sensei) here in the UK - it was great. This got me thinking to an interview (FAI #89) with Tatsuo Suzuki ( I presume this is who you talking about). Really good stuff and interestingly the emphasis they put on 'real fighting' in the early days, just short of biting apparently ;D
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Post by genkaimade on Nov 5, 2010 16:55:08 GMT
I know what you mean Andrew. In the UK their used to be a massive All-Styles Tournament Circuit - the CHP TOURNAMENTS. Quite literally just about every style would be represented over the years events (including Korean and Chinese Systems, Hybrids and the Major Styles) on a humorous and purely fun note we used to say you could tell each styles by the following: Wado - almost invariably huge Black Guys from the midlands with hands like spades and feet like canoes Shukokai - undoubtedly the largest Badges (reguiring a back pack full of batteries to illuminate) Kung Fu etc - wonderful brightly coloured satin suits Tae Kwon Do - supple as hell and padded to the eyeballs Goju - short stances and no reverse gear Shotokan - no padding, a home made gumshield, blood on their |Gi and ugly as hell due to broken noses and lack of teeth. However - and i mean this sincerely - the wonderful thing is that everyone fought like hell but of the Arena got on very well indeed. A sadly missed Era in UK Karate. Whatever happened to this CHP Tournament? It sounds fantastic!
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Post by fujicolt on Nov 6, 2010 23:20:51 GMT
It was fantastic and in the 80's absolutely huge. The guy who launched it was Cliff Hepburn. There is a chapter about it in my Book so sorry Alex you'll have to wait
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Post by genkaimade on Nov 6, 2010 23:55:07 GMT
It was fantastic and in the 80's absolutely huge. The guy who launched it was Cliff Hepburn. There is a chapter about it in my Book so sorry Alex you'll have to wait I'm waiting with anticipation! ^__^ Alex
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Post by tomobrien on Nov 7, 2010 0:14:00 GMT
Goju in the early 70's - Al Gotay taught the cops down on Park Place in Manhattan. The toughest guys were in the Bronx. The Miller brothers, Rico Mercado & co. I once competed in Lamar Thornton's event in the South Bronx. The Chief Referee was Fred Hamilton. He looked at me & asked me if my wife knew I was here. No she didn't. Fought 8 guys & didn't win just survived. Louis Ruiz punched me in the throat & broke my vocal cords. Could not talk for 3 weeks (told everyone it was a bad case of laryngitis).
Thanks, Tom
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Post by fujicolt on Nov 7, 2010 4:44:03 GMT
I had good times with several Goju Bods. A style i have long admired. their close-quarter work is very good and their training tends to produce (in my experience) Karateka who can not only give it out but take it without complaint. their body hardening programs are brutal but productive in my experience. I also had encounters both in training and during door work with the infamous Gary Spiers - a cross between 'one of the lads' - a neanderthal - a larger than life character and a trained assasin(!) but you cannot deny he went to the source and sucked it up. However, without any doubt in my mind the most amazing Goju derived Martial artist has to be Steve Morris - a martial artist of (literally) lethal potential and an obsessively inquiring mind that borders on (and passes into) genius with the stuff he comes up with. If you don't know of him hunt down his stuff on t'internet. He does have a reputation of being - well difficult but i can tell you in absolute honesty that in all my interactions with him he has been very kind, easily approachable and more than gracious and helpful His wife is exactly the same. I only wish someone had cataloged the voluminous notes he has made over several decades. His wife told me of them and i would (as I am sure many would) love to spend a month or so reading through them. I hope he does a book to record his genius - and yes i mean genius and do not use the word lightly. He has passed on from his high ranking Goju situation into decades of development and research to formulate a No Holds Barred fighting system that is incredibly structured and thought through. Put it this way - Few would argue that Terry O'Neil is a formidable Karateka of immense skill and potentially lethal power. Well Sensei O'Neil rates Steve Morris - go read old Fighting Arts mags. or here is a start - www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BESUwL6r9k&feature=relatedor try www.noholdsbarred.co.ukbe warned it isn't just his MA that is No Holds Barred - Steve Morris tells it as he sees it and isn't scared of denting Ego's or attacking what he sees as 'crap MA's' but i would suggest read past that and listen to what he is saying.
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Post by tomobrien on Nov 10, 2010 2:38:00 GMT
Good stuff. I liked some of the other vids Morris as well. We have been doing a lot of boxing as of late. Working curved focus mitts & heavy bag. I sparred with a twenty year old lad last night. He hit me with a half upper cut/half hook. he's a south-paw so he hit me on the right side of my jaw with his left. I saw those stars/sparkles that you see when you get hit a good shot. I had 40 yr. old head gear on & some how I was bleeding high on the head, just below the hair-line. I went to dinner with my daughter's in-laws. He looked at me from across the table & asked me what happened. When I told him he asked me if I was shocked when it happened. I told him I was not as shocked as when I took one on the jaw & saw the stars. They got a good chuckle out of that. I was just thankful that I can eat without any jaw pain. Sometimes, when you get hit like that, the other side of your jaw hurts because the jaw gets hyper -extended & your jaw hurts on the opposite side when you try to chew your food. I actually do jaw exercises every day to avoid that annoying pain & methinks it paid off in this instance.
Thanks, Tom
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Post by kensei on Dec 30, 2010 17:00:25 GMT
Hey Steve, You know I have dipped my toes in many a "Karate style pool" over the years but I have to say that the people I trained with were a mixed bag. I think each style has its weaknes but they also have their strengths.
Its not the style but the person in it for me...but here are my Canadian broad generalities!
Wado- Not bad techniques and had a great handle on using Grappling in sparring. Smoother than Shotokan guys I trained with but lacked the focus in the punches!
Goju Ryu- Close range killers, long range...not so much. No reverse is right, the guy basically rushed me all the time and then close in would rip it up! Nice Kata, but funky breathing!
Goju Kai- Not as elegant as the Ryu guy I trained with, but much much more tough! that and no funky breathing in Kata???
Kyokushin- Thought alot of himself and his style, his instructor was the same way, but did not have a clue of were they came from, not bad sparring and really good leg kicks...but once I boxed the kid in the teeth he fell appart and was mad that I punched him in the face...and he did not try to block it at all....all three times!
Isshin ryu - Strange patch, weird to spar with, clunky blocking, but fast hands for striking. Kicking was all low and not very hard, Katas looked like watered down Goju kata, but the guys were serious into real life sparring.
TKD - Great kickers, poor hand techniques and it looked like they never saw a block before in sparring. With body padding they were fantastic, with out they wilted...One kid had a really bad Ego as well at the bar...did not last long however!
Chito Ryu - Three words "tough as nails". Best door man I ever worked with was a Chito fighter. He KO'd five guys in one fight in the time it took me to get across the bar!
Shotokai - Sloppy form, but the impact is something you can not argue with. Strange long stances (longer than shotokan) and could not figure out the body dynamics, but again...can not argue with results. Guy broke two of my ribs with a lunge punch I thought I could avoid!
Kung Fu (Choy Li Fut) - could not understand a single word of the instructor, the movements were gracefull and flowing, kicks were like TKD wants to be whent hey grow up and snappy movements were MAJOR impressive...but learned ZERO because the guy was Chinese and his english was about as good as my Chinese!
Kung Fu (hung gar)- Guy that taught me was less than beautiful to watch, but I would NEVER volunteer to spar with him. BRUTAL sparring and I can not tell you the amount of ICE I had to use after a 15 minutes of sparring with him. No pulled punches, the pinching was at first looking like it would not work...IT WORKS and dont call the claws pinching!
Kung Fu (Wing Chun)- In close they are the most deadly hands I have ever had the misfortune of Challenging, but adjusting to stay the hell away, the guy was easier to pick appart than a heavy bag. Guy in the bar beat up three door men before we got to him, and damn if I did not respect the kid after! Muay Thai- Ego, Ego, Ego...PAIN! the three guys I trained with all had egos and thought they could beat up superman, and they were Horrible door men! The training pain did not seem to pay off for them!
My suggestion after years of training in Karate...you wanna learn about Shotokan...take up Kendo!
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Post by fujicolt on Dec 31, 2010 22:35:19 GMT
my suggestion - if you wanna learn about shotokan karate - study it's complete arsenal of techniques etc not just those for Shiai Jo or a pre-set grading syllabus that only has a small sample of mid and long range stuff wadda yer think of the short wado clip i put up at start of thread james?
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Post by kensei on Jan 1, 2011 2:25:42 GMT
wadda yer think of the short wado clip i put up at start of thread james? It actually reminded me of alot of the Embu stuff that the JKA puts out. One step sparring used to demo good useable Karate. It was okay, I am always put off a bit by video demos however, not because of the demo but because I find watching them live is SO much more impressive. The first one was interesting and I just felt like the guy could have skewered him with the front kick as he did not actually move off to the side when defending! The second one was good, but the Mawashi should have been quicker, it is to much like a statue defense! Over all, not bad however! Just me being hyper critical as usual! James
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Post by fujicolt on Jan 1, 2011 3:40:42 GMT
I know what you mean Andrew. In the UK their used to be a massive All-Styles Tournament Circuit - the CHP TOURNAMENTS. Quite literally just about every style would be represented over the years events (including Korean and Chinese Systems, Hybrids and the Major Styles) on a humorous and purely fun note we used to say you could tell each styles by the following: Wado - almost invariably huge Black Guys from the midlands with hands like spades and feet like canoes Shukokai - undoubtedly the largest Badges (reguiring a back pack full of batteries to illuminate) Kung Fu etc - wonderful brightly coloured satin suits Tae Kwon Do - supple as hell and padded to the eyeballs Goju - short stances and no reverse gear Shotokan - no padding, a home made gumshield, blood on their |Gi and ugly as hell due to broken noses and lack of teeth. However - and i mean this sincerely - the wonderful thing is that everyone fought like hell but of the Arena got on very well indeed. A sadly missed Era in UK Karate. Whatever happened to this CHP Tournament? It sounds fantastic! Alex - it wasn't a tournament - it was a series of regional tournaments held in every area of england throughout the year. you would score points for 1st, 2nd and third placings in a league table and then each year the highest scoring team would be awarded CHP National Champions Title. I am proud to say that when i fought for York Kenshinkan for several seasons (Me, tivvy gomersall, Dave Pridgeon, Mick Sawyer, Paul Mendham, Mick Douglas, Spud Tate etc) we won the title in 1983. It really was massively supported and very high standard all styles kumite and Kata both individual and team. some events would start at 9.oo am and the final fights would often be after midnight. a huge loss when Cliff Hepburn moved to America and they stopped I hosted the NW region event, Tivvy hosted the Yorkshire open and i think Syl Walsh hosted the midlands event. sadly a missed chain of tournaments. if anyone knows where CH is now please let me know as i (and others ) are trying to find him
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