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Post by genkaimade on Nov 5, 2010 18:06:20 GMT
Those 5 year old black belts (or 7 year old in this case) are getting less and less convincing: www.youtube.com/watch?v=eB8TTklfjkII mean seriously, what the hell?! From what I can see here, this girl's karate isn't even at 5th kyu level, forget about shodan. And her age shouldn't be an excuse - it's just further proof that kids this young shouldn't be grading so quickly if they aren't doing everything to perfection; there's no need to worry about hurting their feelings. Much better than their feelings are hurt than get killed when they try and take their "black belt level" karate into a fight. And there should definitely be an age threshold for shodan... Alex
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Post by Bob Davis on Nov 5, 2010 22:00:01 GMT
OK, devil's advocate here but where would you set this limit?
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Post by fujicolt on Nov 6, 2010 23:17:15 GMT
Here's how we have dealt with it for over 2 decades and it seemes to work okay.
No Children under the age of 7 yrs old are allowed to train.
all children 7 - 12 yrs of age take qradings every three months (minimum time - this can be extended but not reduced).
The grades for 7 - 12 year olds include Mon (division) Grades - these are a 'Mon pass' that must be achieved in between each Kyu grade. this ensures that child students are forced to take thier time and be fully up to scratch for the achievement of each Grade. However they can achieve a Double grading if they show very good skills and jump one.
So (for example) they can go from 7th kyu direct to 6th kyu or they can go from 6th Mon to 4th Mon. this means that students cannot progress too fast but equally can progress faster if deserved.
Once they hit 13 they follow the normal grading ladder.
This means that if a students starts at 7 years old they will be at least ten before even contemplating Dan Grading and then only if we are confident that they are worthy of it.
the grades are as follows
10thkyu 9th mon 9th kyu 8th mon 8th kyu 7th mon 7th kyu 6th mon 6th kyu 5th mon 5th kyu 4th mon 4th kyu 3rd mon 3rd kyu 2nd mon 2nd kyu 1st mon 1st kyu 6months minimum training Shodan
We have never found this a problem and I have black belts of senior grade who are in their thirties+ who started under this system.
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Post by genkaimade on Nov 6, 2010 23:58:10 GMT
I was about to post a very complicated long winded theory, but reading Steve's post, I think that that's a really, really, really good way of going about it. It seems a very logical way to ensure that younger students are really getting everything they can out of karate... If only every dojo/association head thought like Steve...
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Post by Bob Davis on Nov 7, 2010 12:33:35 GMT
Although the details are slightly different we operate a very similar scheme with intermediate grades from 8th kyu up to 1st for anybody under 16 with a minimum 3 months between grades. We do take them from 6 (and, trust me, there a BIG difference between a 6 year old and a 7 year old), but the theoretical time to Shodan, if they grade every time, is 5 years 3 months so nobody gets to Shodan before 11. If a junior student is particularly good it is possible to double grade although this isn't common for many to do this, we have only ever had 2 students double grade 3 times in the entire history of the association (you met one of them at the friendship course, but to be fair he was 10 when he started ). We've had a few very serious students make Shodan at 11-12 and we have another young lady at 12 who is just coming up to her Shodan and, watching her the other night, she is better than a lot of adult candidates I've seen (technically at least).
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Post by jimlukelkc on Nov 14, 2010 2:07:14 GMT
I think Steve will confirm after his visit to our club that our students standards are all "grade-appropriate". I also agree with most of what Steve has put forward. We also operate a mon grade syllabus for our very young students and adhere to most of what he advocates, however our insurers have given us permission to licence students from 4 years onwards and we have a thriving but separate class for ages 4-7. We of course expect much less of them and much of what they learn is in game form but if we refused them then some Mcdojo would take them on to the detriment of those kids. Do we usually refuse to teach them because we feel they cannot grasp it? ( because I can assure you they can !) or is it simply because they are so much more difficult to teach? I always make my new dan grades have a spell helping teach this age group. Once you cn teach them ( like keeping 30 corks under water all at once! ) you can teach anybody.
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Post by fujicolt on Nov 14, 2010 2:42:32 GMT
Jim i think i have said this before but if not = again Jim fascinated me when i visit because he does his very young ones class as a combination of Karate and 'Games' to simulate that movements that will later be used in Karate. very educating new approach for me to see - very impressed except for OUR JIM is a Strong Brawny Big Lad and he runs around and joins in with them to the point of fear he may stand on or fall on one of them!I had nightmares for weeks involving squashed children in Gi's
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Post by Bob Davis on Nov 14, 2010 20:14:37 GMT
Actually Steve, your "bingo" accuracy/impact drill turns into a very effective kids "game" for karate with very little modification. I've put stickers on a big foam impact pad (I don't want small kids hitting anything too hard) and written big numbers (1-5) on, each in a different colour just to make it easy for them to call at their age. Other than that the drill stays pretty much the same, one holding the pad, one judging, one calling and one striking, everybody gets a go at each. Even with the numbers on the pad is still suitable for use with adults as, once you've got them up to speed, you just call numbers higher than five and they have to come up with a combination of strikes to the correct total but still at speed, this allows you to add that bit of extra pressure (does rely on the judge being able to do mental arithmetic though)
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Post by jimlukelkc on Nov 21, 2010 20:15:15 GMT
Ha Ha! Not lost one yet Steve but class getting so big we are thinking of having a cull ! Anyhow I try not to fall over at all these days, takes two dan grades to get me back on my feet !
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