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Post by shinzan on Dec 13, 2010 21:30:16 GMT
Shotokan Karate has three clearly defined areas of study and practise which constitute the majority of training and gradings we do. Bunkai, however, doesn't seems to fit so neatly into this trinity. Is it an area of analisys in it's own right? Therefore, adding another subdivison or, is it included as part of our kata study?
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Post by tomobrien on Dec 15, 2010 2:33:46 GMT
Bunkai always plays a part in kata whether it be formally introduced or not. As soon as a beginner says "What is that?" you are undoubtedly going to be doing bunkai, IMHO.
Thanks, Tom
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Post by shinzan on Dec 15, 2010 10:56:59 GMT
Thanks Tom,
I agree with you that a soon as a karateka makes enquires into what may be implied by the movements or movement in any given kata this could be termed Bunkai. This suggests that Bunkai is an extension of Kata? Bunkai must also permate our kumite practise also?
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Post by Bob Davis on Dec 15, 2010 12:04:27 GMT
And there really is part of the problem, we have formalised so much into the 3K's mentality that, to many, they have become three distinct areas of study rather than just the study of karate. Because we have a syllabus split into 3 areas for grading purposes the focus of training in most dojo's I've been to does split these as if they are different things whereas the actual study and understanding of karate (in my humble opinion, obviously ) is the bits in between where kihon passes into kata, kata into kumite and so on, they are all parts of the whole. Bunkai is an often discussed subject but one question I would ask is how many people associate bunkai with kihon? We spend a lot of time looking at the possibilities in kata but we take kihon as a given, "this is a punch", "this is a block", "this is a strike" (is it any wonder then that people carry this through to their kata understanding?) but if you look at many of the things we practice in kihon they are open to a wide range of possible interpretations. If we practice the possibilities with a partner are they still kihon or have they now become kumite, if as part of this partner training we string a couple of techniques together and then go and practice them as solo drills are they now kihon combinations or, because they are now practiced with a meaning, kata? Don't get me wrong, I understand the point of 3k's training as a tool to get beginners through the basics and the line work we do has it's place but the rigid adherence to this concept severely limits the potential for understanding once students are past this stage. My personal feeling is that as soon as a student asks the question "what does this mean" or "why do we do that" then they are ready for an explanation (or at least the first of a number of possibilities)
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Post by shinzan on Dec 15, 2010 13:46:15 GMT
Well said Bob. This is where I am at with karate at the moment. Trying to interpret the movements in a practical way rather than march up and down the hall in time - mindless of the countless implications the movements and techniques pose. We are encourge greatly by sensei Watt to follow this path.
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Post by jimlukelkc on Dec 15, 2010 16:43:16 GMT
More and more I am coming to the realisation that the grading system has led to the downfall of karate. Any in-depth study becomes impossible because every few weeks you have to revert back to training the grading syllabus resulting in skimming over the three "K`s". I believe we should be including bunkai and flow drills with a partner at a very early stage and whilst I will not show younger members dangerous joint attacks and throws, I do include disengagements and more basic bunkai. I try to encourage my students not to focus on attaining belts but rather on gaining knowledge. There will always be a few who drop out and attend the Mcdojo down the road where grades are given away but then again those students probably would not stay the course anyway.
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Post by tomobrien on Dec 16, 2010 3:34:08 GMT
Good for you luke. Never water it down. I have chased dozens of people out of my dojo. Just keep training hard. David, keep looking for the truth. Thanks, Tom
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Post by fujicolt on Dec 16, 2010 23:49:17 GMT
More and more I am coming to the realisation that the grading system has led to the downfall of karate.Jim Spot On! - join a long list of those whom have argued this for years. In fairness, i would say the PRE SET Grading system (Syllabus) is to blame. that is why we, as a group, take a different approach. of course students should have an understanding of - this is what you have studied as a whole up to now - expect to be tested on any part of it. Imagine taking a spelling exam and before hand they tell you exactly what you will be tested upon !?! Yet in the past few days i have been shown the 'Grading Syllabus' for two very large uk orgs and it is literally learn by rote. I did an actual count of the techniques you need to learn for the Kihon section (beginner to blackbelt) and you will be studying all required by an early stage and just doing them in combo's later. they are a fraction of the techniques available and many - well - just not really practical for a real fight but workable for sport karate fighting. I wonder why this formula hasn't changed
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Post by jimlukelkc on Dec 17, 2010 18:28:14 GMT
I think it will if more people are willing to ditch the ego and move out of their comfort zone. The fact we are discussing it now says a lot.
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