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Post by fujicolt on Jan 1, 2011 4:17:35 GMT
Several times in my life i have been involved in violent incidents when i -without thought or effort - clicked into another zone.
I felt absolutely focused. my opponent/s appeared to be moving in slow motion and i felt as if i was myself moving slowly and not hitting particularly hard but onlookers said afterwards that i moved very fast and each blow was very decisive. I felt absolutely no fear or concern for myself at all. pure one blow and its done! Ikken Hissatsu!
all occasions have a common denominator - I was stepping in to protect a loved one.
has anyone else experienced similar?
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Post by kensei on Jan 1, 2011 20:40:52 GMT
When I was much younger I used to work the door at the bars and also work for a private security firm that did alot of work in schools and at special events. My third day at a school I saw a kid smack a girl...Apparently the right way to treat a girl friend for their age!
I went up and started to protest the actions and next thing I know this littel guy was in my face and so were three of his buddies, my first reaction was to try and back away and get some help, but the kids jumped before I could go for my radio.
All I recall was kicking one in the groin, striking one in the neck and then the knife slid into my thigh and another under the armpit..that one hurt. From their on out it was just me swining and kicking and no blocking what so ever!
I went to the hospital with two knife wounds...the five of them ended up in a room down the hall...I only got help after three were down and out, two were still trying to cut me when the other two guards showed up.
If not for my training, I would not by typing this right now...Thank god my instructor beat me badly once and a while!
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Post by genkaimade on Jan 1, 2011 22:57:28 GMT
When I was much younger I used to work the door at the bars and also work for a private security firm that did alot of work in schools and at special events. My third day at a school I saw a kid smack a girl...Apparently the right way to treat a girl friend for their age! I went up and started to protest the actions and next thing I know this littel guy was in my face and so were three of his buddies, my first reaction was to try and back away and get some help, but the kids jumped before I could go for my radio. All I recall was kicking one in the groin, striking one in the neck and then the knife slid into my thigh and another under the armpit..that one hurt. From their on out it was just me swining and kicking and no blocking what so ever! I went to the hospital with two knife wounds...the five of them ended up in a room down the hall...I only got help after three were down and out, two were still trying to cut me when the other two guards showed up. If not for my training, I would not by typing this right now...Thank god my instructor beat me badly once and a while! Wow, quite the story! I do have to ask though - what is it like being stabbed?
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Post by jimlukelkc on Jan 2, 2011 14:59:15 GMT
It hurts Alex! more afterwards of course!
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Post by Paul Bedard on Jan 2, 2011 16:43:53 GMT
Geez, they got mean kids in Winterpeg! One time years ago, I was in the local pub having an ale or two. A friend came over to talk to me about this little jerk who was pestering her daughter in-law & intimidating her son. I watched this guy for a bit & noticed that they weren`t the only ones that were being bothered by this pest. So I went over sat down at his table and asked him to tone down his behaviour as hi idea of fun was actually bothering quite a few of the patrons, I then suggested that he might think about finishing his drink & calling it a night. Well, then he kind of got under my skin, he just laughed at me & started talking about Tai kwon do & he would do as he pleased. `Wrong answer`. All that I remember, is walking him through the doors ( we were sitting fairly close to them ), His head was what was opening the doors & escorting him outside. As I gave him a shove & told him to not come back in, he spun around & kicked, the next thing I knew was that his leg was on my shoulder with right arm wrapped around it, he was flat on his back, my knee was in his solar plexus, I had his left arm trapped with his leg & my left elbow was in his face. When his lights came back on, I think I told him that he should have left when asked & to not come back in. When I ran accross him a few weeks later, this was at a venue where I was working the door for a pub that had the band `Trooper` playing, he was calling me `Bruce`, as in Lee. I was kind of proud of that, I told him that as long as he was being nice, he could call me what ever he liked. Another time in a pub, I was on the telephone in a serious coversation & all of a sudden I got hit in both kidneys, as I looked around, I couldn`t tell who it was. I ignored it & started talking again, well I got another shot to the kidneys, I grunted & looked around & asked please don`t, was paying attention to the person on the other end of the phone ( my wife ), & damned if it didn`t happen again, I grabbed the person on my immediate left by the throat & asked `Is that you, do we have a problem`, well I`ll just say that I could tell by the look in his eyes that it wasn`t him. I let him go & then said loudly `who ever is hitting me, please stop`. One more time I`m trying to let my wife tell me this important news & `ugh`, I got hit again, by this time I had him, I told my wife honey I`ll be home soon, I just have something to take care of here. I barely remember spinning around with a chudan barai on his left arm as his right came out, pressing block & trapped his arm, then shifted yori ashi pressing him against the stand up bar behind him, my left hip was forward in hamni, I then rotated & hit him in the face with gyaku zuki jodan. I remember this feeling like I was hitting something very soft. I know that after that I had him by the throat & was telling him `I told you to stop`. I then used vibration as my palm heel ( same hand ) struck his jaw & he dropped to the floor. I sadly remember, wanting to kick this jerk in the ribs when he hit the floor. But I stopped the kick short looked at him, called him some negative term & left. I do remember it seeming like it was all slow motion, but apparently it happened in the amount of time that it took the barmaid (who was right there), to turn & get a customer a beer. She was right there & missed it! Apparently, this guy had a bad habit of going around & using both of his hands & knifing people in the back when they weren`t looking. He thought it was funny!! What was funny, but I missed it, was the cops were called, came & questioned him & he was being abusive to the cops, who then arrested him & threw in in jail overnight. When I finally saw him a few days later, I kind of felt bad, as his left eye was swollen shut, it was closed for the best part of 10 days! He had a shiner for weeks.. I never did hear of him knifing anyone in the back again though... `The zone` Were everything else ceases to exist & what you are dealing with becomes slow motion. I also had this feeling doing kata, during my yondan examination recently... Osu Paul B
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Post by genkaimade on Jan 2, 2011 17:31:07 GMT
Am I the only person that hasn't been stabbed (or nearly stabbed anyway) here? XD Not that I want to be, obviously, I just can't see life on the other end of a stab wound :/
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Post by fujicolt on Jan 2, 2011 19:41:07 GMT
it's beautiful Alex but not a recommended experience i've had two and one that was literally millimeters from killing me and yet left me with only a long and skin surface cut but that's one for the book i'm afraid
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Post by jimlukelkc on Jan 2, 2011 20:08:00 GMT
for me, once in the deltoid with a crappy little craft knife ( bit like a scalpel blade ) that snapped off at the plastic handle and second time much more serious, apparently a sharpened screwdriver although I never saw it coming, which nicked an artery in my chest and luckily bounced off the bone. lot of blood but luckily no punctured lung! consequences of having an active social life !
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Post by kensei on Jan 2, 2011 22:54:40 GMT
[quote author=genkaimade board=philosophy thread=241 post=1291 time=1293922648 Wow, quite the story! I do have to ask though - what is it like being stabbed?[/quote] It is a funny thing, when you get stabbed it feels like you are getting punched...real hard, the thigh one hurt, but the armpit took it out of me. The meds said I was one lucky SOB as a rib redirected the knife and it went up into my armpit more than into the chest, that would have likely killed me if not been MUCH more painful. I was also lucky that no major blood vessel was sliced as I could have bled out before the ambulance came. Never thought I would say getting stabbed twice was lucky! My advice...avoid it!
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Post by fujicolt on Jan 2, 2011 23:06:22 GMT
[quote author=genkaimade board=philosophy thread=241 post=1291 time=1293922648 Wow, quite the story! I do have to ask though - what is it like being stabbed? It is a funny thing, when you get stabbed it feels like you are getting punched...real hard, the thigh one hurt, but the armpit took it out of me. The meds said I was one lucky SOB as a rib redirected the knife and it went up into my armpit more than into the chest, that would have likely killed me if not been MUCH more painful. I was also lucky that no major blood vessel was sliced as I could have bled out before the ambulance came. Never thought I would say getting stabbed twice was lucky! My advice...avoid it! [/quote] thing is James I doubt any of us went looking for it - but in some ways Kinda comes with the Territory in certain places when you do door work
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Post by kensei on Jan 2, 2011 23:11:44 GMT
[quote author=fujicolt board=philosophy thread=241 post=1314 time=1294009582 thing is James I doubt any of us went looking for it - but in some ways Kinda comes with the Territory in certain places when you do door work[/quote]
No kidding, I am a lover not a fighter...being Welsh and Russian...Passion runs in my DNA...but dont piss me off! I get my back up to the point of stupidity my mom tells me!
I never looked for a fight in my life, I did however end up in more than my share of them.
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Post by Paul Bedard on Jan 3, 2011 5:33:00 GMT
In the case of my story, I hope that I didn`t mislead anyone into thinking that I got stabbed with a knife. The knifing I received in my kidneys were more like shuto uchi, the description from witnesses was knifing with both his hands. However, I did one time get to damn close to having my throat slashed by a broken beer glass. That was a couple of tsugi ashi`s & a nagashi uke to defend that one. After that the guy was pissed right off that he missed, I was looking at him & told him that what happens next was his call. Of course I was in jyu kamae at this time. He threw the glass down on the floor & left. I`m glad that I didn`t have to test the waters!!! So I guess, I still qualify, eh Alex!! Osu Paul B
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Post by fujicolt on Jan 3, 2011 6:31:00 GMT
oh dear
i didn't mean this thread to become a p*ssing contest chaps. i was actually wishing to discuss the 'zone' and its almost surreal ingredients/content.
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Post by kensei on Jan 3, 2011 16:17:57 GMT
The zone is a combination of adrenaline, fight or flight response and training. Hard wired responses and aquired techniques coupled with evolution. The strange thing is that it does not have to be at a fight or a physical altercation that it kicks in. I once came upon a really bad car accident with my brother and at the time I did not respond to the damaged bodies and the one person who did not make it, I took control of th situation and took the two people out of the car with my brother who had made it and started to do first aid till the ambulance came.
After each encounter the adrenaline dump made me feel sick to my stomach! The zone is a good tool to use, but you do suffer after!
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Post by shinzan on Jan 3, 2011 16:49:04 GMT
The after effects could probably be described as shock which is also another 'zone' or coping mechanism employed by the brain. Shock can be very difficult to spot and very dangerous.
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Post by fujicolt on Jan 3, 2011 21:55:22 GMT
obviously me not being clear enough - we all know the adrenaline etc stuff. i am on about a situation when, because of the situation - a loved one in real danger), it goes to a level that few ever experience - thank goodness!
have you experienced it and what was that experience like for you and why can only a very few click in and out of that state on demand.
if you don't get my point - you aint experienced it (which is a very good thing)
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Post by shinzan on Jan 3, 2011 22:24:21 GMT
As they say on dragon's den. "For that reason; I'm out."
I would agree though that in any life threatening situation time appears to slow and survival instincts engage. But 'the zone' being discussed here is very specific. Had everyone here who has experienced the zone been training in karate for a significant time when they first entered 'the zone'?
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Post by fujicolt on Jan 3, 2011 23:32:46 GMT
I was a first kyu the ist time. I came out of a club and my nephew was being set upon by two guys (he is my elder sisters lad and only a few years younger then me - he is deaf and they had decided that was a reason to jump him when he left the club he went on to be a very good amateur boxer! Haha - i just realised i called him a lad - he is a grandad now!
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Post by kensei on Jan 7, 2011 15:42:30 GMT
For the record...I do not suggest, recommend or perscribe that anyone try and find themselves in "The zone"...the situations often turn ugly and do little benefit for your life span improvement!!!
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Post by jimlukelkc on Jan 7, 2011 17:38:51 GMT
I have experienced what Steve I believe Steve is asking about on a few occasions but the most illustrative occurred some years ago when I was working as head chef in a local bar/restaurant. The public bar had become the haunt of local drug dealers on Friday evenings and weekends and to attempt to catch the main players in the act the police had installed cameras to pinpoint the main perpetrators. After confirming to the manager who the main suspects where they advised they would be conducting a "raid " on one particular Friday night. This was called off as were 4 subsequent dates. Trevor the manager became very frustrated and decided enough was enough and he would just bar these guys the next time they showed. I was having a social drink after work with Trevor and his wife, my wife and some Banana staff when a barmaid advised the dealers had just walked in. Trevor immediately got up and went to the bar and I followed as I thought this was quite ill-advised. Anyway as I predicted it all turned nasty and whilst Trevor was arguing with one punter ( after being spat at and lighted cigarettes flicked at him) I saw one of his crew smash a glass and lunge towards Trevor . without real conscious thought I dove forward to intervene and an altercation ensued ending with me trapped between an inner and outer door with three of these young scamps! I had one on hanging from my back and one to the front and side all raining blows upon me so I , again without real conscious thought adopted sanchin stance and covered up , occasionally hooking and jabbing till I got a grip of the guy to the front of me. We rolled out into the car park with me ending up on top of him and a tight grip of his larynx. Now what happened next is where the whole zone thing comes in and physical effects of adrenalin dump are factors of importance. Apparently ( although I was only vaguely aware of this and had to have details filled in by an observer) the chap who had been to my side wound up and hook kicked me to the ribs as I was astride his mate. I was told I kind of grunted , looked at him and then went back to the business of choking my first choice of partner. Not having the desired effect he switched targets and kicked me in the face! Again slightly more of a reaction but no slackening of my grip!. the rest of the bad lads then legged it but only after slashing Trevor across the face with afore-mentioned glass. One of the regulars asked me gently if I thought I should loosen my grip and let my uke up and after a while I did and he also made off. Now I was fairly lucky to have only bruised ribs and lace-marks across my face but definitely "in the zone" on that occasion. We never know what we are capable of until it all kicks off.
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Post by fujicolt on Jan 8, 2011 13:18:31 GMT
Personally I have been training to switch on the zone as required without need to wait for some life situation to trigger it. As you get to the situation the world is already in slow motion. Gives more apparant time to get to an outcome that does not involve you dying. Most people posting here are lucky, do you feel lucky? I wonder why the others are not posting? Perhaps a visit to intensive care would throw some light on the non posters. That is not to mention the standard over reaction of karate could cause manslaughter maybe that may cause others not to post. These situations are likely to turn out bad which ever way it goes. speak for yourself garage - all have turned out fine in my experience. and i am unaware of this 'standard' over reaction of karate having seen quite a bit of it and quite a bit of karateka dealing with real violent situations. people here post when they have something to say - you'll learn that - and when they do it is usually very informative for us all.
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Post by fujicolt on Jan 8, 2011 17:19:38 GMT
NO NO NO BERT - you are creating debate and discussion and raising points for consideration - sorry to hear about your mishaps but it is important for everyone to know there are consequences in 'stepping up'. please DO NOT GO BACK IN YOUR GARAGE!
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Post by Paul Bedard on Jan 8, 2011 17:41:43 GMT
In most situations of street self defense, my experience is that there are no winners. If all all possible, get out of there, because when the authorities show up, you`re all guilty until pronion innocent & that`s not often easy. However it is said that ` you have the absolute right to defend yourself`. Just make sure that you have not turned into the attacker!!! Osu Paul B
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Post by genkaimade on Jan 8, 2011 17:59:19 GMT
Mm, I run my school's law society, and did a presentation on self defence titled “When do you stop being attacked and become the attacker?”.
I'd be happy to upload it just for reference if anyone is interested.
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Post by fujicolt on Jan 8, 2011 18:29:36 GMT
I am
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Post by Dod Watt on Jan 8, 2011 18:40:40 GMT
So am I
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Post by jimlukelkc on Jan 8, 2011 19:37:45 GMT
Every time things have "kicked off" I have "wished i had not been there". the fact remains it does happen often through circumstances beyond your control and when it has I have been glad that I chose to practice karate . As to luck? a very famous golfer whose name escapes once said after winning several titles in a row and answering the comment by a sports commentator that he had had a a run of good luck " funny thing, the more i practice the luckier i seem to get!"
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Post by genkaimade on Jan 8, 2011 20:06:40 GMT
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Post by Paul Bedard on Jan 8, 2011 20:14:17 GMT
Alex, please share that presentation. Osu Paul B
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Post by Paul Bedard on Jan 8, 2011 20:18:02 GMT
Thanks Alex! Good work... Paul B
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