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Post by genkaimade on Feb 19, 2011 10:03:41 GMT
Hi all, firstly, sorry for having been quite inactive for a while - exams and getting back to school and what not have kind of occupied most of my time... Anywho, that's all over for the moment, so here goes. Basically, what I was doing was as followed: I put a post-it note on the side of my bookcase, and I basically tried a load of techniques on it, stopping them immediately before the post-it note (so not making any contact) and seeing how much I could make it move. What I noticed whilst doing this though, was that I could move the post-it note a lot more with a gyaku-zuki from shizentai (so with a kind of violent shudder of the hips to power it), than I could with my best zenkutsu-dachi gyaku-zuki with full hip rotation full hikite etc. This doesn't seem to make too much sense to me, so though I would ask for advice from you all For once as well, half term has fallen at the perfect time, as I have relatively little work, and lots of karate stuff that I want to work on ^__^ thanks everyone, Alex
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Post by shinzan on Feb 19, 2011 11:02:13 GMT
Hi Alex. It's good to see you posting again. I hope your exams went as planned and you got good marks. Until very recently I always 'assumed' (never wise) that gyaku zuki must involve hip rotation. This is simply not so. Gyaku zuki in Hanmi form must employ hip rotation but gyaku zuki in shomen form = no hip rotation. Are you practising both forms as you experiment with the effects on the 'post-it' note? Is there a possibility that because a technique 'feels' more powerful we expect it to be so? For example gyaku zuki is regarded as a very powerful technique but if we get everything right and land a really good oi zuki would the oi zuki have a more decisive effect? End of waffle:)
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Post by fujicolt on Feb 19, 2011 11:08:08 GMT
Hi all, firstly, sorry for having been quite inactive for a while - exams and getting back to school and what not have kind of occupied most of my time... Anywho, that's all over for the moment, so here goes. Basically, what I was doing was as followed: I put a post-it note on the side of my bookcase, and I basically tried a load of techniques on it, stopping them immediately before the post-it note (so not making any contact) and seeing how much I could make it move. What I noticed whilst doing this though, was that I could move the post-it note a lot more with a gyaku-zuki from shizentai (so with a kind of violent shudder of the hips to power it), than I could with my best zenkutsu-dachi gyaku-zuki with full hip rotation full hikite etc. This doesn't seem to make too much sense to me, so though I would ask for advice from you all For once as well, half term has fallen at the perfect time, as I have relatively little work, and lots of karate stuff that I want to work on ^__^ thanks everyone, Alex Hi Alex nice to see you around again. Am a little confused re your post - please explain.... firstly how are you using something you are not actually hitting, merely moving something with air moved by your movement, to judge the techniques power when you say Gyaku Tsuki from shizentai what do you actually mean - are you stepping into a Zenkutsu Dachi and making Shomen Gyaku Tsuki ? just trying to be clear mate so i can try and help you Osu!
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Post by Dod Watt on Feb 19, 2011 11:30:24 GMT
Hi Alex, Steve's right can you clarify what your doing because it sounds like you're doing two totally different techniques, because for it to be gyaku tsuki from a standing position you have to change your structure and stance
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Post by genkaimade on Feb 19, 2011 13:42:30 GMT
shinzan: I'm going to have to think about what you said there, as it hasn't quite sunk in yet @steve+Dod: Sorry for not being clearer: just to explain the post-it note quickly, basically, I may be falsely connecting things, but by examination, a good solid technique always results in the post-it note flapping more than a poorly executed technique. As for stance, yup, stepping into shomen gyaku-tsuki. thanks ^__^
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Post by fujicolt on Feb 19, 2011 16:24:03 GMT
If i am understanding you Alix - i think you are confusing 'air turbulence' with 'power generated' and they are not, by far, the same thing.
the old 'blow a candle out' with a punch that doesn't touch it is merely a trick that you can teach beginners to do and is actually a result of poor kime not sharp transient kime. unfortunately it has become the norm to believe that high tension, long duration, verbally loud KIME is good Kime when it simply is not.
Also - what exactly do you mean when you say you are stepping into shomen gyaku tsuki?
At your grade i would suggest you work on relaxation and form - if they improve power will increase in relation. go look at the clip i posted of Shirai Sensei and work on REALLY examining his form and then copying that form. even film yourself and play it back to help you check your form against his. trust me the man is incredibly fast and powerful!
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Post by genkaimade on Feb 19, 2011 23:10:47 GMT
If i am understanding you Alix - i think you are confusing 'air turbulence' with 'power generated' and they are not, by far, the same thing. the old 'blow a candle out' with a punch that doesn't touch it is merely a trick that you can teach beginners to do and is actually a result of poor kime not sharp transient kime. unfortunately it has become the norm to believe that high tension, long duration, verbally loud KIME is good Kime when it simply is not. Also - what exactly do you mean when you say you are stepping into shomen gyaku tsuki? At your grade i would suggest you work on relaxation and form - if they improve power will increase in relation. go look at the clip i posted of Shirai Sensei and work on REALLY examining his form and then copying that form. even film yourself and play it back to help you check your form against his. trust me the man is incredibly fast and powerful! Thank you for the help Steve - I honestly don't know what I would do without all your help You couldn't link me to the Shirai sensei video could you sorry? I can't seem to find where you posted it Thank you once again everyone ^__^
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Post by fujicolt on Feb 20, 2011 9:04:48 GMT
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Post by genkaimade on Feb 20, 2011 9:49:29 GMT
Thank you
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Post by redbudo on Feb 24, 2011 0:31:36 GMT
Hey Alex,
I just read your post re hip use and I decided to throw in my 2-bits worth.
To me, it seems that you've got it right--you just need to play with it a little more.
But, I could be misunderstanding what you are doing and what you are asking. So, let me take a stab and hope that you give me a pass if I get it all wrong.
Generally speaking, body mechanics dictated hips that are 'square to form'. Hips square as you stand in a natural stance. Classic JKA.
I once spent some time with Hideharu Igaki, a Shito-Ryu stylist who was explaining different ways to generate power with the hip. He demonstrated it in the way that it seems you did with your Post It note.
Natural stance; fists up near your face, elbows down with your forearms vertically in front of you at the midline so as to jab at the Post It. Right hip forward to send the right fist jab to the target, then pull the hip back to bring the fist back to re-chamber. That's one way. Then, quickly rotate hip forward and back (hip vibration) with the jab following close behind.
I expect that you're already very familiar with this, but I had to start somewhere.
Now, you are standing natural stance and you want to do a backfist to the right. Same idea. One way is to lead with the hip in the same manner as that first downward block in Heian-1. Or, you could do the reverse-hip vibration model to send that backfist.
Both work and there is no preference--it depends on the circumstance. I used to use the same-side forward model when jabbing into a heavy bag and I would use the hip-vibration model when jabbing at a light focus mitt.
Straight punch. In basics training we would punch with our armpits tensed and our shoulders set. When we got stronger, we would allow the shoulder set to relax a little to increase our range by an inch or two.
Try it. Natural stance. Straight punch hard and hold. Now, in the fully extended punch position, allow your shoulder to relax ever so slightly to allow it to come forward slightly. You have gained a little bit in range. You cannot do this to the extent that the shoulder muscle, tendon, ligament complex is compromised and unstable. Now allow the same side hip to go forward with the shoulder slightly.
I'm not a technician and I don't want to screw up your form--I don't know your level--this is only some additional fodder for you to investigate.
Ok, I said hips square to form. Standing! How about a dynamic move like a lunge punch? It's ok for the same-side hip as your fist to be slightly ahead of the off-side hip. Just don't make it excessive.
You've already had basics training until you want to throw up. You already understand fundamental body architecture. You already know how to tighten the body in order to transfer power across joints. Now the question is how to move and how to deliver that power.
There's a reason to learn this but it might be too soon for you. Fodder for investigation & to put in back of your mind until the moment when you can begin to develop it.
Think of a kizami. Generally it's a shift forward jab. How about a left-reverse-kizami while stepping forward with the right foot AND right hand lunge punch! It's not 1 - 2. The right hand straight punch arrives barely a half beat after the kizami. The right foot might or might not yet have landed. The timing takes a while to develop. It requires strong hip action. I only mention this last to make the point that--once you have mastered good form and the basics--you can safely leave it to your body to naturally support other attributes that you might be working on.
This point was drilled into me during a casual Q&A with Mr. Mikami. You understand that good form dictates generating power from the floor by stomping through the heel. But speed might dictate raising that heel. Well, you already know how to generate power, so why not raise the heel when the occasion demands? So said Mr. Mikami on that memorable day so long ago.
I know that I ramble but your post sent me off into some different directions. Hope it helps.
Chuck
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Post by Paul Bedard on Feb 24, 2011 1:10:34 GMT
Chuck; please feel free to ramble on.. : Osu Paul B
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