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Post by fujicolt on Jul 27, 2011 1:49:47 GMT
Master Gichin Funakoshi's 20 Principles of Karate - Anglicised wording: * In Karate, start with a bow and finish with a bow. *There is no first attack in Karate. * Karate is a great assistance to justice. * Know yourself first and then others. * Spirit first: techniques second. * Be ready to release your mind. * Accidents come out of idleness. * Do not think that you can learn Karate only in the Dojo. * It will take your entire life to learn Karate. * Karate-ise everything. * Karate is just like hot water. If you do not give heat constantly, it will again become cold water. * Do not think you have to win. Think, rather, that you do not have to lose. * Victory depends on your ability to tell vulnerable points from invulnerable ones. * Move according to your opponent. *Consider your opponent's hands and legs as you would sharp swords. * As soon as you leave home for work, think that millions of opponents are waiting for you. * Low stance for beginners; natural stance for advanced students. * Practising a Kata is one thing and engaging in a real fight is another. * Do not forget: light and heavy application of power, expansion and contraction of the body, slowness and speed of techniques. * Devise at all times. Was the man a genious (remember HIS Karate was still a new approach at the time he wrote this!) or was he naive and even a bit paranoid? Ooh! I expect those comments are gonna get me a pasting? but they are actually questions aimed at creating discussion and debate, not statements folks!
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Post by superjock on Jul 27, 2011 1:56:09 GMT
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Post by fujicolt on Jul 27, 2011 2:00:32 GMT
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Post by superjock on Jul 27, 2011 2:14:43 GMT
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Post by fujicolt on Jul 27, 2011 2:25:38 GMT
more to the fire then Andrew! and Back to the thread!
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Post by Paul Bedard on Jul 27, 2011 3:31:42 GMT
Master Funakoshi was a well read man. A Confucious scholar & well versed in the Chinese classics along with Japanese history. I can only imagine him studying `Sun Tzu the art of war, the `Book of Five Rings` & other such books on military strategies * stories of Samurai & Budo. I believe, that he took his feelings on what he studied, lived & trained & gave us his recipe on how to be more accomplished martial artists & positive examples of being good human beings. I believe that he was a very` Humble` man & that he did his best to` walk his talk`. I think that he had a vision of karate going out to the world & being a tool for the greater good of mankind. I know, now I`m the one who is `naiive`. However his idea & teachings are honorable. If the majority of mankind lived according to the dojo & niju kun we would be much closer to world peace.. Osu Paul B
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Post by fujicolt on Jul 27, 2011 3:36:46 GMT
Paul - why do you believe yourself to be 'Naive' - these principles have definitely impacted on my life in many ways - yes I am not stupid and have never followed them as some kind of pseudo' religious creed but most creeds of this kind often have merit AND nonsense IMHO!
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Post by kensei on Jul 27, 2011 18:12:28 GMT
I don’t think that he was naïve at all, he may have been a genius, but that is subjective isn’t it, and being paranoid…well that may have been a learned reaction to things…not for me to debate. I like to look at the Dojo Kun and Niju Kun in different lights. First off the Dojo Kun is about character and personal actions, the Niju Kun was about how to treat Karate as a weapon! I think we all misread it at times….let me explain….. * In Karate, start with a bow and finish with a bow. Everyone translates Rei as being “Bowing” its not. Rei also means courtesy. Basically what Funakoshi is saying is DON’T BE FRIGGIN RUDE TO YOUR TRAINING PARTNERS. Start your training off with respect and courtesy and end it the same way… *There is no first attack in Karate. another mis-translate. I take this as don’t go looking to prove your Karate is strong by beating people up without provocation. It does not mean that if someone is going to attack you that you block first…then counter. It means keep your sword sheathed unless you need to use it! * Karate is a great assistance to justice. “Karate stands on the side of justice”..not”…assistance to”. When you look at it this way it basically states again…”DON’T USE IT FOR ILLEGAL REASONS”….like robbing people, mugging them, murder or rape..and while you are at it and being a good person…why not help out when you can? * Know yourself first and then others. this one I take as, Learn what you can do first then learn what your opponent can do. It’s a basic “I need to know basics before I can spar” kind of thing. I don’t think that Funakoshi and his peers were going all Ziggy Freud on us! But maybe they were…my translation works better for me! * Spirit first: techniques second. this one is straight forwards, if you have great form and technique but no intent in its use and no spirit to put behind it…well you have less than half, if you are a wild man sparring with tones of spirit and heart, you will often find that you destroy a person with no spirit and heart. * Be ready to release your mind. easy one, if you think when you fight…you get hit a lot more than if you just react. * Accidents come out of idleness. 12 broken noses will attest to this. Train seriously! Don’t drop your guard, nor your hands. Kind of like learning to shoot a gun, treat it with seriousness and respect! * Do not think that you can learn Karate only in the Dojo. “Karate goes beyond the Dojo” Not just training…it means don be careful and ready…just in the club. Also the other aspects of Karate are useable outside the club. The self discipline, hard work and dedication will help you at school, work and other aspects of life. * It will take your entire life to learn Karate. and then some. Karate, not just the kicky punchy stuff is more about the long haul than getting some trophies and ribbons, its about more than rank and ability to dominate…its about perseverance and dedication to improving the self. How can you do all that in four years? ”Apply the way of Karate to all things, therin lies the beauty”….. Way easier to understand than the other translation. And again…pretty much the same answer as the last one! * Karate is just like hot water. If you do not give heat constantly, it will again become cold water. = don’t train….get dull…or train more and you sharpen the sword of your techniques. Stands to reason, if you don’t run for two years then try to do a half marathon…chances are you wont finish! * Do not think you have to win. Think, rather, that you do not have to lose. Don’t worry about taking home the win, worry about taking home yer Arse in one piece! * Victory depends on your ability to tell vulnerable points from invulnerable ones. “ make adjustments according to your opponent”. This basically means don’t fight one way, find his weakness and adjust to it…don’t force them to play your game, play their game…better! * Move according to your opponent. ” The outcome of a battle depends on how one handles emptiness and fullness (weakness and strength)”. Again, how do you deal with what the opponent does, not what you want to do! *Consider your opponent's hands and legs as you would sharp swords. like I say to my students “first rule of Karate……Don’t get hit!” * As soon as you leave home for work, think that millions of opponents are waiting for you. Don’t be complacent and walk around with your head in the clouds! * Low stance for beginners; natural stance for advanced students. You have to condition the legs and body with low stances and as you learn to apply it you can then go to a more natural stance….straight forwards I think. * Practising a Kata is one thing and engaging in a real fight is another. Duh….its not safe to “Really fight” its safer to wear white pajamas, scream at each other and dance around….but go to a bar and work a door…now that’s scary! *( and strangely fun) * Do not forget: light and heavy application of power, expansion and contraction of the body, slowness and speed of techniques. So, learn yer basics and use em! Be aware and ready…damn boy scouts stole that one! Thast my take and a few more direct translations…I hope that makes sense….
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Post by fujicolt on Jul 27, 2011 18:42:11 GMT
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Post by nathanso on Jul 28, 2011 0:12:03 GMT
Don't forget that Funakoski was a salesman trying to popularize karate. I think it is just as easy to view these as 20 marketing slogans as it is to view them as high- minded principles.
I don't view him as naive. I'm also not sure that I view him as humble- would someone who is really humble think that his life was so interesting that he should write an autobiography?
I think that one just needs to read To-te Jitsui to have your illusions of GF dispelled. Parts of it can only be described as jingoistic, racist, and pro-war imperialistic.
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Post by fujicolt on Jul 28, 2011 0:36:25 GMT
Please understand Neil - I long ago lost the 'we must honour the Japanese just because they are Japanese and with this thread was trying to (and succeeded it seems) draw discussion and debate to keep OSS buzzing whilst the WATTS attend to other matters -
I personally believe that much written about the GREAT MASTERS OF OLD is absolute twaddle and, as you say, 'strengthen the myth to make money' jingle jangle hype!
in essence i am agreeing with you totally! I suspect that's our invite to the JKA Bonfire Night squashed then HAHAHA!
All style's have similar bullshit though - especially MMA!
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Post by kensei on Jul 28, 2011 2:11:14 GMT
Funakoshi had smelly feet....Horrible Flatulance and bad breath...but he was also well read, a very smart guy when it came to writing about Karat. His ability as a Karate student is debateable!
its the same thing with other greats, I have read that Napolean was a womanizer who hated to bath, Barak Obama stinks of smoke, I also read that Churchill had a wee small drinking problem that could have caused him his job...if he was not so damn good at it.
Point being that the slight Racist comments and feel to Funakoshis jabber in his book may be attributed to poor habits and sign of the times...similar to your "Foot ball" rivals and some of the comments i have read about how Team A Sucks butt and how team B is awsome! His team was the Japanese..and we wer the other. I tend to think he would have seen things different if he were born in New Jersey!
And Steve, I am planning my instructors 70th birthday, I will write a wee small paper for everyone when I am done...then you can all pick it appart and have fun!
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Post by fujicolt on Jul 28, 2011 3:15:14 GMT
that's great and appreciated James. But be wraned - DO NOT question the claibre of the man Winston Churchill - he has been a hero of mine, flaws and all, since i were a nipper! actually it is his flaws etc that make me even more , well proud of him! most of the greats have flaws that everyone focuses upon but in my eyes the flaws sometimes just remind us all that 'they' were human and in many ways just like us except for the extraordinary things they did that make them to be valid candidates for the terms 'GREAT' OR 'GENIOUS', OR 'HERO' ETC. You must have heard the story about WC staggering out of the House of Parliaments bar (been there) and the ferocious Betty Boothroyd (one of the few female Politicians of that era) confronting him with: Mr Churchill YOU are Drunk! WC responded 'and Madam YOU are UGLY but I shall be sober in the morning! and he gently walked away! LOVE IT! = fighting without fighting! ;D ;D ;D
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Post by kensei on Jul 28, 2011 13:20:13 GMT
actually, Winnie...as the Great grand mother called him....was a special kind of witty, And lord knows I can respect that.
Point being is that even the great ones have bad habbits, poor points of view and the more important point is several of his (Funakoshis) books "editited" very heavily by others...so we dont know if some of the more racist stuff was him...or his juniors after he passed...look at Karate do Kyohan and Nyumon, You can hardly say he was the only author of that book...more like he was the model for that book that others wrote!
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Post by nathanso on Jul 29, 2011 5:56:11 GMT
Funakoshi had smelly feet.... I am not sure that is true. Okazaki told us that the junior students would bring him bowls of water to wash his feet.
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Post by fujicolt on Jul 29, 2011 22:39:47 GMT
PMSL guys - sure the smelly feet thing ias something changed in translation I really did LOL!
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Post by kensei on Jul 31, 2011 16:05:27 GMT
LMAO, I was trying to show that they were just as human as the rest of us...But this is very entertaining to see the reply about washing his feet!
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Post by fujicolt on Aug 2, 2011 3:41:00 GMT
I think that one thing we should all be grateful for with Funakoshi - is the fact that he started the chain of links that led to us all being involved and having the chance to discuss him and Karate here all these years later! Surely he has to be given the credit for being the Catalyst for modern Shotokan if not the actual creator of it in the form we know.
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Post by nathanso on Aug 3, 2011 7:00:08 GMT
LMAO, I was trying to show that they were just as human as the rest of us...But this is very entertaining to see the reply about washing his feet! The funny part of the story: Okazaki said that the students would try to trick or otherwise try to "get" GF in various ways, like bring him water that was too hot, but that he could (almost) always "read their minds."
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Post by fujicolt on Aug 4, 2011 5:26:38 GMT
or spot the steam
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Post by nathanso on Aug 4, 2011 18:02:49 GMT
I figured that GF was so old by then that he couldn't see the steam.
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Post by stevenm on Aug 4, 2011 21:54:23 GMT
....Or wash his own feet.
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Post by fujicolt on Aug 5, 2011 23:14:45 GMT
or just become a myth!
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