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Post by superjock on Oct 6, 2011 7:19:47 GMT
‘’Total body tension is possibly the most important technique to master……………….Without it you expose the body’s weakest links to injury and also drastically reduce your ability to produce force………You will never realise your true potential without this technique.’’ 4 Principles of full body power. 1. Tensing the muscles of the entire body = ripple principle 2. Breath holding-75% of your total lung capacity. 3. Anal locking. 4. Exercise cadence i.e. proper technique. Rob Beauchamp, Kettlebell Bible.
‘’To perform any kind of heavy physical work, concentration of strength is necessary. Even a great amount of strength will accomplish nothing if it is dispersed. By the same token a small amount of strength properly concentrated can be quite powerful.’’ ‘’It is no exaggeration to say that the practise of karate techniques is the practise of concentration of strength at the proper time and at the proper place…..The greater the number of muscles brought into play in performing a given movement the greater the concentration of strength. The force which can be exerted by the hands and feet working alone is very small; therefore the muscular power of the whole body should be exerted in such a way that the strength is concentrated at the point of impact.’’ Hidetaka Nishiyama, Karate, The Art of Empty Hand Fighting.
2 masters two very different arts, if I removed all reference to karate as well as the quotes would you know who wrote what?
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Post by fujicolt on Oct 6, 2011 14:00:37 GMT
Sadly a widely misconstrued concept Andrew. the key in your quotes is 'concentrated at the point of impact'. Sadly many apply the muscular tension far too early and for far too long. true kime occurs for a split second and is preceded by and followed by a total relaxation of the body with the exception of the minimal muscular contraction needed to remain stable, balanced and able to move fluidly after the strike. Sadly far too many Karateka fail to grasp this. interesting parralelling of Quotes though. Nice one!
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Post by superjock on Oct 6, 2011 18:17:51 GMT
Length of kimi is one of the aspects I am working on at the club. Mainly for my benefit to try and replace the old KUGB 'huff puff' with a better more constructive habit (one or two of my students are picking up on it ). A bit of decon-reconstruction if you like. In my opinion exaggerated kimi and pregnant pauses are a direct result of competition aesthetics. Take these principles I have mention above to the makiwara or heavy bag and discover the real truth behind the technique. We spent the whole 2 hour session on this on Wednesday night starting of with sanchin full technique tension then gradually shortening the length of tension til we got somewhere near. Then I pulled out sponge Bob our home made pad to show the difference between air thrusting (tsuki) and hitting something. With air thrusting (notice I'm not using the word punching) out of the body's necessity to protect itself you will be contracting your antagonistic muscles in order to stop the force going forward. When hitting the pads, makiwara, bag etc. it's the protagonistic muscle that need to be contracted most. One of the reasons that you need to spend at least 50% of your time hitting something, allows your body to develop in balance. As you say steve it is that split second kimi that is required in order to smoothley move on to the next technique. Trying to get rid of the extraneous tension is fun A whole session on 1 technique, strangely enough none of them thought it was a boring session and they were still working on it on the way to their cars. Brain food
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Post by Paul Bedard on Oct 11, 2011 16:05:39 GMT
We call it`KIAI` I`ve seen many even saying kiai when they are doing it. This is dumb. To say `kiai` is actually two syllables. Much to long for the point of kime. I kind of use `ai`, just one sharp sound from the tanden through the diaphram.. Osu Paul B
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Post by superjock on Oct 11, 2011 18:12:12 GMT
We call it`KIAI` I`ve seen many even saying kiai when they are doing it. This is dumb. To say `kiai` is actually two syllables. Much to long for the point of kime. I kind of use `ai`, just one sharp sound from the tanden through the diaphram.. Osu Paul B In my opinion the kia should come naturally with no set length in time. To paraphrase Balloo the bear , it should come from the toenails and reverberate through your whole body. I aim for it to start just as I am about to apply the juice and finish on the return to kamae. Yes I double kime at times once when striking and again on the return kamae, which I use as a block/cover. This should probably be on the kimi thread
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Post by fujicolt on Oct 12, 2011 20:51:45 GMT
kime and kiai are seperate things but deeply intertwined - a wonderful puzzle that we shall toil with no matter the length of training - which is great and mind focusing
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Post by kensei on Oct 19, 2011 12:32:21 GMT
Wow, just read this post and its interesting...my 2.4 cents worth is this..... Kiai first off (as steve caught it before me) is a "Spirit shout", a vocal expression of your intent and can be used in many different ways to create many different effects...way more powerful than some realize and saved my ass in a very funny story...which I will post on a different thread...but Kiai and Kime are different, if not related concepts. Where Kiai is the vocalization of intent and can be used in conjunction with Kime, Kime does not have to use Kiai. As an example, each movement in a Kata should have Kime for a split second, but not all of them use a Kiai. Kime should be, to heavily borrow from the founders, like a spark off flint. A moment of concentrated tension in the body that focuses a techniques movement into a target (be it a kick, block or strike) and then a resulting relaxation (partial as it is) of the muscles involved. My example is Choku zuki, the Kime of Choku zuki should tense a "power line" from the floor to the end of the striking fist with the core, legs, chest and arm that is striking focused into the target, kind of like a new york door lock (the pole from floor to door). This split second allows for more power to be generated from the floor to the target, and then you MUST relax to be able to move and relaunch attacks or defense again. I have never been much for the Goju ryu style heavy Kime and body testing kind of training. I did Uechi ryu with a friend for a short while and he did this thing were he tested my Sanchin with strikes, explaining that you have to stay tense through the whole Kata to protect yourself. I told him it felt like I was going to CRAP myself and stopped. I dont see the benefit in being able to take a hit if you are so tense that you can not engage in movement or counter attacking and simply stand their taking it. For me Kime is a split second when my body makes impact with the attacker to create a physically more powerful strike after exerting and using speed and explosive movement to actually launch a technique I dont want to hinder its progress by "anal clamping"...which unto itself just sounds like a really bad week end event you dont want to remember....ever! I am on board with Nishyama on this one! That was one unique guy, but he got it 100% right in my eyes....now admit it...you can not stop thinking about "anal clamping" now can you!
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Post by fujicolt on Oct 19, 2011 23:24:46 GMT
this forum freaks me out = so many knowledgable and far thinking members that simply make you go - 'erm - i better think this through' = fantastic! but all mad crazy eeydyuts the lot of them LOL! ;D ;D
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Post by fujicolt on Oct 19, 2011 23:27:33 GMT
Anal Clamping - well i am sorry but i can stop thinking about it! good grief! But maybe i had a differnt youth than some! LOL!
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Post by superjock on Oct 19, 2011 23:48:50 GMT
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Post by superjock on Oct 20, 2011 0:04:23 GMT
As for the Goju testing thing I think that this has been over emphasised and taken to the extreme for the sake of an audience. I usually look at a training method and ask myself what was/is the intended outcome(s) of this. If I can't find a logical one I discard the method until such times as one comes along. In my opinion sanchin teaches both hard and soft but unfortunately all we ever see is the hard busterbloodvessel type. It teaches form, trajectory and dare I say it teaches the body to give full tension then relaxation. I read somewhere (think it was on George Mattson's forum) that sanchin should be trained in three ways 1. Very heavy as per goju version. 2. Then with very light almost no tension (or as near as one can get without collapsing in a heap) at speed. 3. A mixture of both light and fast with kimi on the end. Sound familiar
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Post by fujicolt on Oct 20, 2011 0:09:14 GMT
elequently put Andrew - simply about knowing how and why to tense the body and when and why!
Have some one really try to stab you - you'll tense your techniques exactly correctly trust me - you may also go to bits afterwards thinking 'Fudge I coulda died!'
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Post by superjock on Oct 20, 2011 0:27:10 GMT
elequently put Andrew - simply about knowing how and why to tense the body and when and why! Have some one really try to stab you - you'll tense your techniques exactly correctly trust me - you may also go to bits afterwards thinking 'Fudge I coulda died!' Missus tries to stab me at least once a month Helps with the anal locking as well
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Post by kensei on Oct 20, 2011 14:39:54 GMT
Been stabbed three times....never once was it fun! And did not clamp anything at the time...but as Steve suggests...each time I was stabbed that was pretty much my response (Crap I could have died) but when it happens...you go into auto pilot and fall appart or fight back....suffice it to say...I faught back and then collapsed into a heap when it was all over.....
Strange how seeing your life almost taken makes you want to throw up and gives you the jitters!
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Post by fujicolt on Oct 21, 2011 2:46:11 GMT
Been stabbed three times....never once was it fun! And did not clamp anything at the time...but as Steve suggests...each time I was stabbed that was pretty much my response (Crap I could have died) but when it happens...you go into auto pilot and fall appart or fight back....suffice it to say...I faught back and then collapsed into a heap when it was all over..... Strange how seeing your life almost taken makes you want to throw up and gives you the jitters! In all seriousness I have so much admiration for senior Karateka whom have faced real violence - when they admit to being human and feeling fear etc. Usually it is the 'theorists' who talk like they were some character from a movie who just moves on with no sense of danger or resulting reactions = just theory based on NO actual experience or knowledge. Respect to those whom tell the truth - they are the ones to study with!
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Post by kensei on Oct 21, 2011 15:23:27 GMT
Not sure what is worse after a real life...read near friggin death...experience....the sweats and jitters, the heaves (dry or other wise) or the emotional melt down you get for about 12-30 minutes after. Anyone who says they walked away from a fight and just sat down and had a beer and felt nothing is one of three things.....
1. a psychopath....dont play well with others...stay away!
2. a highly intoxicated person who does not realize what just happened 10 sec. after it happened and will get the heaves and jitters for other reasons...watch your expensive shoes...they seem to be a good target.
3. a LIAR! Dont buy realty off this guy at all!
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