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Post by fujicolt on Oct 20, 2011 0:22:36 GMT
was asked today by a young student that attends my courses but is not in my group:
'When will i get proficient enough to be able to defend myself?'
He had asked his dojo Instructor whom responded - 'just concentrate on passing your gradings'
I responded - 'concentrate on learning the full Shotokan syllabus not just the grading requirements!'
he answered: 'Really?'
what do you think?
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Post by Paul Bedard on Oct 20, 2011 4:18:30 GMT
`Just concentrate on passing your gradings` is such a cop-out!! When your body is driving your technique & you can do action without thought, might be more appropriate. I like to think that we can be getting a good handle on self defence before learning the complete shotokan syllabus. Otherwise, I`ve just been lucky!! But really the grading syllabus does`nt cover all the ranges & understanding what works in each range is a step in the right direction. Kicking range, punching range, trapping range, grappling range etc.. Then there is short weapon range, long weapon range, throwing weapon range & shooting weapon range. Just concentrating on grading id kind of lacking.. Osu Paul B
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Post by Bob Davis on Oct 20, 2011 12:40:56 GMT
I was asked this question many years ago on another forum by an instructor who was trying to guage how karate was being taught. He wanted to know at which stage of our training we felt we were becoming able to defend ourselves should need arise. My answer at the time was "before I started or after brownbelt". I'd never had an issue with my confidence in my ability before I started karate training but, having started, the way we were taught meant that I was so focused on remembering syllabus and set responses that the ability to just react was gone, I felt this started to come back around brownbelt.
Having said that my view has now changed having seen blackbelts who, even after many years of training, would have no idea how to defend themselves should thing kick off and students with a few month training who cam through the door as a "handful" and stay that way all the way through. I guess that unless you already have the attitude or spend significant time training the attitude then all the syllabus work in the world won't help you (and the grade is pointless).
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Post by kensei on Oct 20, 2011 14:25:29 GMT
Some people will get high level black belts and still never be able to defend themselves...so that answer is unanswerable!...and leads me to be sadder than I like to be.
Some white belts come in able to defend themselves and no amount of training will help others to do so. Its not the style of training you undertake, its the person in the style! I have met Tai Chi guys I would not mess with and a few MMA students that came out and Thai boxing guys who are supposed to be tough...that were...not so much.
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Post by fujicolt on Oct 21, 2011 2:10:25 GMT
i just get so frustrated when i here people state that shotokan karate is not a good self defence system. i am frustrated because 1. the way it is so often taught i would have to agree but 2. if studied fully it is excellent as my own experiences have shown. I am 5'7'' and when fully fit wieghed a mere 12 stone. never overly supply but quite strong. I have had to overcome many obstacles especially feeling fear and controlling it BUT i did it and have survived far more real violent encounters than the majority. Jeez if I could make it work anyone can.
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Post by nathanso on Oct 21, 2011 7:19:58 GMT
was asked today by a young student that attends my courses but is not in my group: 'When will i get proficient enough to be able to defend myself?' He had asked his dojo Instructor whom responded - 'just concentrate on passing your gradings' I would bet that this student is unlikely to ever learn how to defend himself if he only trains in with this instructor. Unless his club's grading syllabus is very different from most clubs that I have seen, he will be tested on standard cookie-cuttter shotokan techniques- kihon, kata without a realistic set of applications (if they do any bunkai at all), and basic sparring, leading eventually into mostly non-contact tournament sparring. That is fine for students who want that, but would be lacking what this student is looking for.
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Post by kensei on Oct 21, 2011 15:10:04 GMT
I have a "New student" that trains with me, just earned his Orange belt last testing and while doing Karate looks stiff, has so many bad habits that its silly at this point. He is also one of my best friends..and has been for 20 years (yah, someone put up with me that long who is not married to me) The thing is he was a city champ in kick boxing and the head bouncer when I worked the door at the clubs he worked at and I have seen him scrap. The guy has no issues (back then) of getting in a fight and 90% of the time he came out ahead of the game! I also have a senior who has been a Kata champion for years when he was younger at the national level. The two stories I have heard of him having to make self defense...well they did not turn out so well from what honest accounts make of it. Facts are this, Karate reprosents a set of tools that can be used, and like my wood working father says...You can have the best set of tools but if you have not the tallent or time to learn how to use them they will just butcher the wood. In this case you can learn Karate (have the tools) but if you never learn how to use them you wont be any good at it. you can even look good at using part of the tools (Kata) but if you can not apply that to sd then you are simply fooling yourself that you are a master craftsman.
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