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Post by fujicolt on Dec 15, 2011 5:29:40 GMT
Sad to note that there now seems to be a dispute regarding whom are the true lineage promoters of Asai Sensei's Karate Legacy? For everyone's sake wouldn't it be better if all those whom had the blessing of extended personal training with him worked together to ensure that the Genius of the man and his ideas are properly preserved? and then hopefully passed on intact as he would have wished? I know Andre B is reknowned for speaking is mind but Surely name calling and personal attacks won't be in anyway helpful to that aim! I understand if there is a bit of a row over the publication of a books cover photo but I think Yokota Sensei's pedigree is kinda taken as being legit and his Karate as being JKA Instructors Class Graduate standard. and they wonder why some of us avoid large group memberwships like the plague! SO Sad! How can IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENTS like this possibly help anyone? andrebertel.blogspot.com/2011/11/wjka-kata-kyohan_16.html
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Post by kensei on Dec 15, 2011 18:49:40 GMT
A few things come to mind here...first off THEY JUST MARKETED THE BOOK FOR THEM! I mean if you post a picture of a book that is published out their someone is going to see it...and buy it. For every person that does not buy it...whom would not have went out to buy it in the first place...you just alerted 20 of us that it exists...and I for one may look at grabbing up this book! Secondly, on the topic of Andre, he is a heck of a guy, lots of passion and a great Karate guy...but I fear its the pot calling the kettle black here. Many people say he had very little to do with Asai sensei in his training...or rather the other way round. He hosted the master when he came to NZ but other than that he was a bit of a hanger on....for me the proof is in the pudding, he is a hell of a karate guy! But pointing fingers at others and making fun of older men that may not have his athletic ability...well it speaks for itself! As for Ms. Asai and her statements, again..why try and own the art form of your husband if you are not the head instructor and traveling to teach.....its a bit confusing. Its like if I die and my wife keeps my club running...and she never trained in Karate? Much like toyama sensei and Nakayama Sensei, Asai did not leave a replacement for his style of Karate, even Kagawa does not move like him or teach as style close to him...nor does any other of his students...ergo it seems perfectly logical that NO ONE OWNS A STYLE OF KARATE. If I was told by the JKA that I could not train in Karate the owners of a system way...I would tell them to take a hike, I would do Kata in my back yard and train with students in any Dojo I could find...and I would LOVE To see the court case saying I could not! I would laugh my butt off. If someone said I could not publish a book on the style I train in then I would edit the book ever so slightly and publish it anyways. More power to the instructors doing this book...we need more infomation not less! Andre in this case, we know your feelings...so I think that is all we need to hear about this one for now!
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Post by superjock on Dec 16, 2011 9:46:08 GMT
Pleased I chose to steer well clear of this kind of crap!!
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Post by plwilloughby on Dec 18, 2011 22:32:05 GMT
The only issue I have with Yokota is that he was a member of the IJKA and a 6th dan. He was based here in the US - former member of ISKF under Okazaki. If he trained much with Asai, it was when he was in Japan as a member of JKA. When he left IJKA and joined WJKA he jumped to 8th dan. That doesn't bother me as much as the fact that he changed his name on facebook from Kosouko to "shihan". That would be like me changing my name to "sensei". I've not met him and he could be a great instructor but I don't know...
Paul
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Post by fujicolt on Dec 28, 2011 15:16:14 GMT
Hey Paul - I think that Yokota Sensei's promotion to 8th dan wasn't a two grade jump and was merely an honourary promotion for his services to Karate. It is a WJKA Rank. However, I also had to explore the man's history and training time line and I can assure you that it details a man FAR MORE deserving of the rank of 8th Dan than several we all know of. Forget his rank and if you have the chance go experience his Karate, spend time with him and get him chatting. He has MORE THAQN 'been there, done that and bought the T-Shirt'
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Post by kensei on Dec 28, 2011 19:26:42 GMT
Rank hops dont bother me anymore as well.....since I gave myself the advanced "honorary rank" of 15th Dan and the new title of Grand Poobah of Karate!..(which will be my new face book name as soon as I can change it)! The truth is Rank begins to mean little after Nidan anyways. and little before that as well! I have met Shodans that were better than some sixth dans I trained with and 6th dans that seem so much better than the rest that you simply can not figure out why they are stuck at 6th Dan while others are 8th Dans and the difference is so small! Time in, politics and like I said before, the want and need to do a crap boat load of paper work every month! Once you pass fourth and fifth dan its mostly admin and teaching anyways. If Yakota Sensei is a 8th Dan from what I have read in our chats he may deserve it. Besides...perhaps a bit more tending our own gardens is in order here! ;D
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Post by fujicolt on Dec 29, 2011 1:24:44 GMT
If Yakota Sensei is a 8th Dan from what I have read in our chats he may deserve it. Besides...perhaps a bit more tending our own gardens is in order here! at risk of TOTALLY misunderstanding your point - can you please expand the above James to clarify exactly what you mean? thanks
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Post by kensei on Dec 29, 2011 13:41:13 GMT
If Yakota Sensei is a 8th Dan from what I have read in our chats he may deserve it. Besides...perhaps a bit more tending our own gardens is in order here! at risk of TOTALLY misunderstanding your point - can you please expand the above James to clarify exactly what you mean? thanks I have chatted on line with Yokota sensei and he is the real deal from what I can see. He is one heck of a nice guy as well as knowing his stuff. His lineage and what he has done...I THINK....tend to pan out. The line about tending our own gardens is a line my grandmother used to use. In stead of gossiping about the state of someone elses back yard...tend your own garden. basically its better to focus on what you are doing and ensure you are doing the right things rather than mess about and gosip or point fingers. I like Andre, he is a very likeable guy, but those that live in glass houses should not pick up stones. Not to long ago he was accused of having very little to do with Asai Sensei and also having "hosted" him on three separate occasions. it would seem to me that if Yokota Sensei trained with Asai Sensei in Japan a few times then him and Andre area about equal on experience with Asai Sensei and perhaps he should not point out his thinking that Somone who has little training with a master should not actually reprosent him......Just saying. My point being that if we all just shut the hell up, strapped on our Gis and Obi and went to work on the floor with out pointing otu that someone that probably never will step into our own dojo has a questionable back ground or crappy form or what ever else we are picking on...well maybe our own gardens would not be in such shambles. ;D .....Just saying!
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Post by fujicolt on Dec 29, 2011 17:55:53 GMT
If Yakota Sensei is a 8th Dan from what I have read in our chats he may deserve it. Besides...perhaps a bit more tending our own gardens is in order here! at risk of TOTALLY misunderstanding your point - can you please expand the above James to clarify exactly what you mean? thanks Thanks for the Clarification James, I am also going to point out, as I have just done on one of James Lukes posts - it is the quality and thought provoking nature of posts like yours above - that make this forum THE best shotokan forum anywhere - IPPON JJ! I have chatted on line with Yokota sensei and he is the real deal from what I can see. He is one heck of a nice guy as well as knowing his stuff. His lineage and what he has done...I THINK....tend to pan out. The line about tending our own gardens is a line my grandmother used to use. In stead of gossiping about the state of someone elses back yard...tend your own garden. basically its better to focus on what you are doing and ensure you are doing the right things rather than mess about and gosip or point fingers. I like Andre, he is a very likeable guy, but those that live in glass houses should not pick up stones. Not to long ago he was accused of having very little to do with Asai Sensei and also having "hosted" him on three separate occasions. it would seem to me that if Yokota Sensei trained with Asai Sensei in Japan a few times then him and Andre area about equal on experience with Asai Sensei and perhaps he should not point out his thinking that Somone who has little training with a master should not actually reprosent him......Just saying. My point being that if we all just shut the hell up, strapped on our Gis and Obi and went to work on the floor with out pointing otu that someone that probably never will step into our own dojo has a questionable back ground or crappy form or what ever else we are picking on...well maybe our own gardens would not be in such shambles. ;D .....Just saying!
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Post by fleur on Dec 29, 2011 20:51:54 GMT
I don't want to get in the middle of this or take sides. But James if you do your research there is lots of video footage that Andre spent quite a considerable amount of time with Asai Sensei over the years. (More than hosting him in NZ - he trained under him in Japan and travelled with Asai to assist him with seminars etc.) I agree Andre is a nice guy and exceptional karateka but I also agree he just needs to concentrate on his own karate and not be so defensive and posessive of the Asai way.
His doesn't appear to have the maturity to look the other way and tend to his own gardens.
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Post by kensei on Dec 30, 2011 13:13:13 GMT
"I" am not the one that would suggest he had less of a relationship. However, on other forums some have challenged him on this alot...and I mean A LOT!
I have read that he basically was a late addition and others were upset that he tended to take on Asai Karate as his to run or hold. However, to be honest I have never seen him say this, but he sure is quick to cut down others.
For my self.....I would love to train with both men, Heck I just like to train in Karate and learn and enjoy Karate.
I have never been big on Asai Sensei Karate as far as 103 Kata and such, but the man had something when it came to movement and the study of Karate with different approaches.
As for Andre and the rest, if they spent MUCH LESS time focusing on what others are doing and just working on Karate on their own, perhaps they would be a bit more happy!
It all smacks of sour grapes to me. The biggest issue is when the older generation passes on and does not leave a successor to their Karate. A clear path they want to have continue after they are gone. Nakayama did it, Asai did it and several others.
Andre can sling muck at Yokota as much as he wants, but the truth is that others have and still can sling right back at him.
Perhaps its time to just shut up and train for them and for others that like to fling muck!
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Post by fleur on Dec 30, 2011 21:15:02 GMT
James, I completely agree!
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Post by fujicolt on Dec 31, 2011 17:48:02 GMT
I find it sad when people cannot have faith in their own study to date and future study - holding on to a lineage can be ok but it is, by what it is, limiting. the rush to hold on to a japanese linage is also limiting - i have , over the years trained with many Japanese Sensei - but to be truthful i have learnt more from western hemisphere Instructors and i would be wrong to deny it. Andre lets himself down with vitriolic outbursts that make him look very insecure IMHO = sad. Go learn anywhere and let us all know when you find good stuff! is what i have3 told my students for decades!
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Post by plwilloughby on Dec 31, 2011 18:14:23 GMT
I find it sad when people cannot have faith in their own study to date and future study - holding on to a lineage can be ok but it is, by what it is, limiting. Yes! At some point, you must find your own personal karate. That is the whole idea of shu-ha-ri. Paul
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