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Post by fujicolt on Jan 1, 2012 10:12:49 GMT
It saddens and somewhat angers me as the first of my caretaker duties of 2012 to have to inform you that one of our members has recieved a personal threat from a non-member for legitimately expressing his opinion on a matter here.
As you will understand 'policing the internet' is like knitting fog BUT knowledge is power and it is surprising what can be done.
If any of you recieve similar threatening e-mails for voicing an opinion here PLEASE let me know immediately. I have a large network of contacts all around the world and you will be surprised what can be done with such a wonderful group of friends and colleagues on our side.
DO NOT tolerate such Bullies and please do the one thing that Bully's hate - let them know you are not alone and we will all watch each others back!
As you know we insist here that any posts must be legitimate opinion and not nasty or defamatory - other than that we shall follow Abraham Lincoln's stance:
'I may not agree with what you say but i will defend with my last breath your right to say it!'
for obvious reasons - in this case and any further cases - confidentiality will prrevail and names of those involved appropriately Kept private.
PLease do not undeservedly dilute your legitimate opinions for fear of upsetting somebody whom may disagree with it.
It is the ability to agree to disagree agreeably that makes this the Best Shotokan Forum in the world. we need to protect that awesome facility for debate and learning.
SO back to business and lets all make this forum even better in 2012
HAPPY NEW YEAR!
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Post by kensei on Jan 1, 2012 21:02:26 GMT
Before I second Steves good wishes for 2012, and before I say this let me tell you that I respect everyones wishes to be private about this kind of stupid bully activity...let me say two small things (because being mean comes in two's with me)
first off if any putz and coward out their chooses to bully me on the internet (not the kind of back and forth goofing off me and steve do but really tries to bully me) let me tell you that I WILL make it well known the posts will be reprinted and your cowardly ways will be made known to the community and your students and peers will get to see what a gutless moron you really are...so please...PM me...I will repost it and I will spread the word as much as I possibly can. the only way to face up to this kind of cowardace is to shine the light on it like cockroaches needing to be shown to the world!
Secondly, so that everyone knows this, in Canada the highest court is reviewing a law that will make this kind of cyber bullying illegal and will be treated as assault! The world court is waiting for the law to be passed an then they will pass the same statutes and we will see this become a law across the lands as each country changes their current laws to be strickter. So, if you threaten someone withy physical, financial or other threats then you will be charged with assault...nice way to start 2012 you gutless wonders. And to be clear, some countries and districts already have laws like this.
Its a sad day when someone can not say what they want for fear of reprisals. None of us are suggesting that others stop and take up what we suggest. I am a JKA man and have been for a long time...even if it is just in my heart for a while. I dont intend on leaving them and I see the good points to that organization over others...but I also defend the right for others to say they are not perfect, or even suck...as long as they can give a reason I will listen, even if I dont agree. Hell I might say that they have weaker points, who doesnt...but the trueth is that when we look around at this forum we are here to share our thoughts, if someone does not agree...its a learning opportunity...not a chance to pull out our girly high school crap and threaten others.
Sorry for going off, but I have had to many times been the victim of an Ego moron that would attack others and saw that kind of behavior on 24 chickens....saw it was a crappy approach and the bully soon lost teeth (on the net that is).
Dont let bullies get away with this. If they ever PM'd me...I would go to the highest mountain I could find and would blast them!
Much respect to steve and his approach however...this situation sucks. dont let it silence whome ever was the victim of this cowardace!
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Post by jimlukelkc on Jan 2, 2012 14:38:55 GMT
Hear! Hear! gentlemen. I completely agree, illuminate these cowards for all to see. Personal attacks are not an option here. Both myself and Steve have commented on this behaviour on another forum. Vote with your feet and leave these fools to argue amongst themselves.
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Post by garage on Jan 5, 2012 12:00:04 GMT
I have no idea to what you are talking about as you wish, not aimed at members here, in general I do not understand the general school boy code of silence that protects the bully allows them to continue.
When you approach the likes of facebook hotmail etc you get stone walled and when you force them release the information it normally not useful. It is like they are more interested in protecting the bully than the victim.
I have managed to catch a few and you have to get them in real time and you can normally only prove 1 or 2 instances and after they are arrested it is just a one off and they are always treated lightly. Some of these cases have led to physical actions/damage etc.
"illuminate these cowards", "name and shame" whatever you want to call it evidence is really hard to gather as schoolboy no one wants to tell tales seems to kick in.
An oberservation rather than opinion.
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Post by fujicolt on Jan 5, 2012 15:27:28 GMT
The matter is currently remaining nameless at the request of the person whom recieved the rather unpleasant E-mail.
I would love to say more but feel it vital that members here have there private lives remain so!
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Post by kensei on Jan 5, 2012 20:07:22 GMT
Here is my point and what I will and would do. If I got an email from someone that was threatening, Well I would past it up here, on face book, email it to the organizaitons that the people belong to and if I could I would put it up on my web site. If you threaten me physically or my organization then you will pay by having a red face and possibly meeting the cops if I can, if not then you will see it vented all over the web. Your actions as a childish bully will be presented and even if legal action is not going to happen you will be exposed as a moron and bully. If you have a personal issue with me...Pay the air fair and lets look each other in the eyes and vent together over a cup of coffee. Personally the only person on the web that has ever really got me so mad and tried to bully me , I offered him the same option of getting on a plane and coming to train, he declined and looked like an idiot. I dont ever say that someone does not have a right to their own thoughts and I also think trying to bully someone into your thoughts or your organization is stupid. The person who was bullied, I feel for you. The person who bullied them...well the option of the plane ticket and cup of coffee is yours as well!
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Post by fujicolt on Jan 6, 2012 1:04:04 GMT
I wish to be absolutely clear - the OSS member whom recieved the nasty and rather pathetic e-mail was NOT and is NOT at all intimidated by the thinly veiled threats and challenges. The matter is being dealt with and i will keep you informed. If deemed appropriate to do so all will be made clear - I think you will be interested as you are aALL criticised, insulted and challenged but i suspect you may not be surprised as to whom sent it Please be understanding and patient. Thank You. Back to other other threads for now eh? Let this unfold appropriately.
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Post by tomobrien on Jan 6, 2012 3:14:01 GMT
We deal with bullys quite differently in 'The Banana" Thanks, Tom
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Post by fujicolt on Jan 6, 2012 3:28:47 GMT
'If you sit by the river bank long enough the bodies of your enemies will float by' Samurai Proverb related to having patience in Battle. Don't worry Tom tis being dealt with
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Post by kensei on Jan 6, 2012 13:23:09 GMT
Hey Steve,
I have no doubt it is being dealt with and I did not want to suggest other wise. My posting of my thoughts was more as a "this is what I would do" kind of thing.
I know we are visited by many people whom do not join. I also know of a few people who just read it and dont bother joining. My point is that this kind of behavior is not befiting a Karate person...not one with true Karate spirit and understanding. I may expect that from a junior that has yet to learn...and lets face it...reguardless of what your wall parchment says...if you behave like this I think you can go burn your paper tiger art work rank certificates because you learned NOTHING!
Sorry, but if someone said to me "MY name is John Doe...7th Dan black belt and you (add demand/insult and or threat)"...well I would have to asses them possibly a 1st Kyu and be on my way.
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Post by garage on Jan 6, 2012 14:36:37 GMT
Whilst I understand this a Karate board and that is the style of response could be non karate and draw attention to the terms and conditions of most websites.
The normally have an E-mail address abuse@ if you send to this address they will normally remove the content and close the offending account. eg abuse@hotmail.co.uk
The host of the website is responsible for liable and can be prosecuted if they fail to remove the content. There was a recent case to this effect in Italy.
The Police have cyber crime units and I have found them very helpful.
If you not sure who they are you can tell where they are, I thought smartphones would make it worse but the gps shows where the phone is to within a metre even if the gps is not being used.
Phone calls most companies have an abuse department.The telecomunications acts make threatening calls illegal and will trace withheld numbers etc.
If you type cyber bullying into google there are several sites that sumarise how to complain.
If none of hat works there is always the approaches posted above.
May I wish you all a very happy 2012.
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Post by fujicolt on Jan 8, 2012 16:15:58 GMT
Bert, whilst i appreciate that you are attempting to be helpful here may I be clear that the Hosts of this site are not Liable for anything in this matter. the Sad and pathetic challenges and defamatory remarks made to one of our members were sent by E-mail and not via this site. Even though this rather sad individual was deeply critical of EVERY SINGLE MEMBVER of this forum and sent thinly vieled challenges to us all - he did so via e-mail. The recipent of that E-mail has advised me that he is preparing an appropriate response so I suggest we leave it be for now and once made public we can all comment if desired. Thanks!
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Post by superjock on Jan 13, 2012 10:56:05 GMT
Well I suppose it's about time I made my reply here.........I have specifically given things time to settle down before doing so. Although I don't respond very well to threats, as my 14 year old says ''Dad has anger management issues'' I have to accept most if not all of the responsibility for the email I received. Yes there were veiled threats, yes he attacked the 'OSS' name. However you guys need to know the facts before judging him further. You will guess who sent it but I will not cause further embarrassment by naming him. I made my comments in public the reply comes the same way. The FactsIn a thread on here I said something like (I can't remember the exact words) stop saying ''oh I do Superjock's Karate''.........waffled on a bit and finished up with ''stop arse licking and do your own karate''. Now in my defence it was all said tongue in cheek (with added things) and was meant to provoke reaction from members towards the subject of taking control of your own training. I did a couple of hours later decide that the arse licking bit was inappropriate and made a half arsed attempt at editing it (I have since removed it). The thread was about who was promoting a great man's karate, this sensei reached the top of the JKA as it was and decided that it was lacking, to cut a long story short he took control of his karate looked outside the box and created something brilliant. I was actually taking the aggrieved young sensei's side but he picked it up the other way round. My bad English. Let me explain, the young sensies blog reads '' XXXXX XXXXXX Sensie's Karate-Do Dedicated to the memory of XXXXXXXX the nucleus of this site is my personal focus on the Shotokan of the old JKA (Japan Karate Association) and the highly effective developments engineered by XXXX Sensei. Following Sensei's example, this online resource will also include some of the innovations I've worked on as a Japan trained and internationally qualified instructor and examiner. Welcome, relax and please enjoy!'' Doesn't look like the site of an arse licker to me. On the other hand Older Sensei writes ''Happy New Year! Anyone wants to learn Asai kata? I can teach you remotely.'' (shit I'm gonna get another email from the other side this time). Where is the taking control bit. In my opinion yes it is good and healthy to respect greatness and learn from them but to blindly follow......................Sorry if I have upset one or two people here. Getting back to the young fellow in question when my sensei left me in the shit last year, this guy contacted me right away (with no request) offering support. I know some of you guys have had a few negative discourses with him but that has not been my experience. I respect this guy for what he is doing and I know that he will grow into a great karate-ka. I put the email down to him being hurt at my comments (considering the kindness he has shown me) which although were not aimed at him considering the thread started of about him was understandable that he thought I was attacking him. It is understandable that when attacked you lash back and I fully accept my responsibility in all this. I have taken precautions against the unlikely event of any physical confrontation in that I have shared the email with one or two trusted karate and non-karate friends. I also unreservedly apologise to anybody who may have been offended by my post. Free speech is one thing calling people arse lickers or anything else is something else. From my point of view the subject is closed. Andrew Paxton
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Post by kensei on Jan 13, 2012 13:45:37 GMT
It takes a big man to post that Andrew,
I would have to say however, that a reply like "HOW DARE YOU" or "I TRIED TO HELP YOU, THIS IS WHAT I GET" is much more adult than "ARSELICKER! I AM GOING TO KICK YOUR ARSE" kind of reply.
after reading your post I know who you are talking about and I am a bit shocked (no I wont say who it is so dont ask..guess like the rest of us did). He normally seems a bit of a zelot and while naturally gifted may need to grow up a bit here.
Cyberbully and internet threats are the kind of childish thing I expect from children! If you have an honest issue with someone then you send them an email stating that you have an issue with what they said. You dont threaten them, and as for him stating anything about the OSS, well thats just silly.
We are a diverse group of people here, we come from all kinds of different back grounds and to threaten us or to paint us all with the same brush is stupid and shows a lack of maturity.
I know you are letting this individual off the hook here, and he should be greatful that he had interactions with a bloke like you, Personally...Iwould be posting his threats on the web and embarassing the twat!
Lets just say my oppinion of him and who he is happens to be MUCH less than it was before he showed his true colors! Also, the fact that he claims to be passing on XXXX Senseis Karate....well lets just say I dont think a great man like XXXX Senseis' Karate is in good hands! And I am fairly sure that XXXX Sensei just did a barral roll in his grave!
J
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Post by genkaimade on Jan 13, 2012 13:50:18 GMT
Well I suppose it's about time I made my reply here.........I have specifically given things time to settle down before doing so. Although I don't respond very well to threats, as my 14 year old says ''Dad has anger management issues'' I have to accept most if not all of the responsibility for the email I received. Yes there were veiled threats, yes he attacked the 'OSS' name. However you guys need to know the facts before judging him further. You will guess who sent it but I will not cause further embarrassment by naming him. I made my comments in public the reply comes the same way. The FactsIn a thread on here I said something like (I can't remember the exact words) stop saying ''oh I do Superjock's Karate''.........waffled on a bit and finished up with ''stop arse licking and do your own karate''. Now in my defence it was all said tongue in cheek (with added things) and was meant to provoke reaction from members towards the subject of taking control of your own training. I did a couple of hours later decide that the arse licking bit was inappropriate and made a half arsed attempt at editing it (I have since removed it). The thread was about who was promoting a great man's karate, this sensei reached the top of the JKA as it was and decided that it was lacking, to cut a long story short he took control of his karate looked outside the box and created something brilliant. I was actually taking the aggrieved young sensei's side but he picked it up the other way round. My bad English. Let me explain, the young sensies blog reads '' XXXXX XXXXXX Sensie's Karate-Do Dedicated to the memory of XXXXXXXX the nucleus of this site is my personal focus on the Shotokan of the old JKA (Japan Karate Association) and the highly effective developments engineered by XXXX Sensei. Following Sensei's example, this online resource will also include some of the innovations I've worked on as a Japan trained and internationally qualified instructor and examiner. Welcome, relax and please enjoy!'' Doesn't look like the site of an arse licker to me. On the other hand Older Sensei writes ''Happy New Year! Anyone wants to learn Asai kata? I can teach you remotely.'' (shit I'm gonna get another email from the other side this time). Where is the taking control bit. In my opinion yes it is good and healthy to respect greatness and learn from them but to blindly follow......................Sorry if I have upset one or two people here. Getting back to the young fellow in question when my sensei left me in the shit last year, this guy contacted me right away (with no request) offering support. I know some of you guys have had a few negative discourses with him but that has not been my experience. I respect this guy for what he is doing and I know that he will grow into a great karate-ka. I put the email down to him being hurt at my comments (considering the kindness he has shown me) which although were not aimed at him considering the thread started of about him was understandable that he thought I was attacking him. It is understandable that when attacked you lash back and I fully accept my responsibility in all this. I have taken precautions against the unlikely event of any physical confrontation in that I have shared the email with one or two trusted karate and non-karate friends. I also unreservedly apologise to anybody who may have been offended by my post. Free speech is one thing calling people arse lickers or anything else is something else. From my point of view the subject is closed. Andrew Paxton A very humble and obviously heartfelt post. Just for the record, I was blindly clicking my way down the page, and think that I may have accidentally clicked on the 'report to moderator button'. If I have, and Steve comes looking for what's wrong, it was a total accident sorry! I didn't mean to click it!
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Post by malk103 on Jan 13, 2012 15:10:26 GMT
I have witnessed several incidents of evil and anger on the net on forums, it normally stems from a mis-reading of the original post or "reading" it differently from how it was meant to read. Not everyone is a wordsworth and even some bad grammer can change the meaning of a sentence. Many problems are solved with a quick phone call or asking them to elaborate on the post, it's only when some people decide to attack from their keyboard then it gets out of hand.
It's easy to ask for an explanation and very hard to apologise. It would be good to put an amen to it and move on - hopefully lessons were learnt.
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Post by fujicolt on Jan 13, 2012 16:15:20 GMT
Get your point Mal and would normally agree to the 'Move on' suggestion but the widely damning and challenging nature of the e-mail of concern' this time and the hypocrisy of the person whom sent it does, I believe, need fully airing but at the moment we must respect the decision of the recipient of the unpleasent e-mail.
Please remembver this individual has deeply criticised every swingle member of this forum. I think it would be a good thing for him to read your responses to his damning comments and challenges. He waxes lyrical about 'true Karate' constantly - I think it may be useful for him to hear your reactions.
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Post by kensei on Jan 13, 2012 16:33:18 GMT
I have witnessed several incidents of evil and anger on the net on forums, it normally stems from a mis-reading of the original post or "reading" it differently from how it was meant to read. Not everyone is a wordsworth and even some bad grammer can change the meaning of a sentence. Many problems are solved with a quick phone call or asking them to elaborate on the post, it's only when some people decide to attack from their keyboard then it gets out of hand. Yah, like the time I called Steve a "MAD OLD GIT" and obviously I meant that with great love and affection for all the posts we have enjoyed cross the pond....now howhe took that the wrong way.... Seriously, the written word is just another art form some of us have not mastered. I have sent out emails that I thought were bloody funny and the other person...not so much! Or I thought I was being very clear and ended up with hat in hand...my thinking however is it is better to venture out with the ability to say sorry and appologies being given than to defend yourself and a poor stance when wrong! I also think its better to ask for clarity in a posting than to assume the other guys is being a moron or OLD GIT! I also assume that the person is trying to get a laugh than be a turd! This stops me from having to remove my foot (Read from knee down) from my mouth after a knee jerk (Pun intended) reaction. It's easy to ask for an explanation and very hard to apologise. It would be good to put an amen to it and move on - hopefully lessons were learnt. I think the point is, and the reason that "Forgive and forget" is not appropriate here is that the original post by one of our members, while not well put together, was recieved poorly (member's fault) but the response was HORRIBLE and very TELLING (the aformentioned unmentioned GIT from XXXXX Senseis lineage). Even if some one (Read Steve) were to insult me and make fun of me or something, first thing I do is try and asses if he is over medicated at that time....if not then I assume he is A) lost his mind...again, B) fooling around and thinking he is being funny C) had his computer "Hacked" and some one is trying to sound funny....or he is over medicated and his other personality highjacked his account...thus Hacked! Reguardless, the last thing I would do is threaten him...after all he is old and has a bad ticker...I would not belittle him or anyone else for that matter. If I took it serious enough I would simply post IN PUBLIC that I thought he was being a "OLD MORONIC GIT" and be done with it. No threats, not a single childish "I am going to beat you up" or anything like that. Lets just say that I am very sad for that guy that thinks he is reprosenting XXXXX Senseis Karate well, and yet cant protract his cranium from his rectum! Oh, and again....Steve...thanks for teaching me the word Git...man does it come in handy! ;D
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Post by fujicolt on Jan 13, 2012 18:32:08 GMT
typical - two minutes after making him admin I had to censor one of Kensei's posts. I realise it was an overthought BUT will those of you whom do know the names of those involved here please NOT post those names without clear permission to do so from our member involved. Thanks! OH and James It would be appreciated if you would kindly choose another person as your 'example' cos this OLD GIT is gettin weary of it. Oh I need me meds and this OLD TICKER of mine would handle a wee little cannuck like you anytime her daft sod!
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Post by kensei on Jan 13, 2012 18:58:43 GMT
Daft Sod....Good another one for the books. I would pick on others, but they dont seem to be up to the stick poking that you are. I always love a challengs, and I have yet to beat you at this game! I think we can all agree that even with emotions flying high, we wont name names and be happy with just saying our peace...which I have done and I am happy with.... By the way, Steve...I live by the notion that the old Lion is the worst to try and take on in a scrap...must know something or he would not have gotten that old eh!
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