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Post by genkaimade on Feb 9, 2012 16:09:18 GMT
If I understand what you mean by natural correctly (feet shoulder width apart-ish, standing upright), then what I do is a sort of...this is difficult. It's kind of like a small jolt of the hips.
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Post by Allan Shepherd on Feb 9, 2012 21:16:53 GMT
It is referred to as hip vibration.
Best Regards Allan
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Post by deckerdude304 on Feb 9, 2012 21:45:42 GMT
Its my biggest worry, not getting the hip movements correct. I try at every lesson, but have been told that 'it will happen when it happens, just work on it' .
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Post by fujicolt on Feb 9, 2012 23:40:15 GMT
be careful guys - the secret is to move 'naturally' and as quickly as possible. Hip 'vibration' is a myth and has been shown to be totally void in terms of adding to the generated power in a punch. KISS: keep it simple stupid appears rude but is so true. The aim is to get the punch to, and through, the target as quickly as possible with the support of good posturural alignment throughout, and stance that has to have, i repeat has to have, perfect foot positioning to maximise results. KISS it and yuou'll be there!
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Post by nathanso on Feb 10, 2012 7:50:19 GMT
should you pull back that hip before punching and then flick it forward as you punch? Seems to me that this is a bad strategy, as it just telegraphs your move for your opponent. I think that when trying to compare different ways of doing a technique such as a punch, it is important to actually hit something for the comparison to really mean something.
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Post by fujicolt on Feb 10, 2012 8:37:27 GMT
There has been much talk of this vibrating hip movement but i have witnessed two Senior Japanese Sensei teach it differently on the same one day course. There are of course different ways to apply your hips but IMHO NOT in Choku Tsuki which relies on hip stability due to the lack of movement and the linear foot alignment. As Nathan says - a bag will show you why
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Post by makoto on Feb 10, 2012 12:52:28 GMT
Vibration is the popular word for the movement, but I like to call it hip shimmer. The movement is not big at all, it can be barely noticeable. Some people do the movement too big, and have a big pull back just before the fist hits the target. Of course this is totally wrong. And I agree with Steve, the way most people do hip vibration is wrong as does not help at all. However, there is a way do it and have it help with the punch. I will check and see if I can find a video.
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Post by makoto on Feb 10, 2012 13:07:24 GMT
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Post by Allan Shepherd on Feb 10, 2012 16:53:43 GMT
I was originally taught hip vibration with excessive movement slowly to see the technique's flight path and then taught it with very minimal movement at speed since the effectiveness is in the very short duration from start to finish. When applying the technique to a bag or makiwara (or a body) it is so evident of the force produced since the hip vibration happens slightly before or at impact when the hips are set in hanmi, shomen or gyaku hanmi.
Best Regards Allan
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Post by fujicolt on Feb 10, 2012 19:51:42 GMT
I apologise allan if I got it wrong as i thought we where discussing basic chokutsuki - in which the hips are shomen positioned with feet shoulder width apart and aligned. - if we are not then hip movement can become involved. Also - to be honest - I am a huge supporter of use of the hips and other body mechanics to enhance power ( Shukokai's Kimura Sensei first opened my eyes to the real potential (he was awesome at variations of hip usage and hit as hard as ANY Karateka I have ever seen) but sadly feel that in Shotokan even basic movements such as moving from Hanmi to Shomen and reverse in basic Zenkutsu Dachi is sadly incorrectly taught. It is quite simple to demonstrate why the errors are errors but they are everywhere! Even in DVD's etc produced by reknowned karateka. Go explore you'll see it
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Post by Allan Shepherd on Feb 10, 2012 22:41:29 GMT
No probs Steve, I personally think that hip vibration actually works in Choku Tsuki for me even though the hips are in Shomen because the hip vibration still occurs slightly before or at the point of impact.
Next time you practice hip vibration in either Choku Tsuki or indeed Hanmi, Shomen (as in Oi Tsuki) or Gyaku Hanmi add shoulder extension (does not entail turning shoulder towards target) which involves freeing the "locking out" at kime and allowing the arm to move a further two inches or so into the target. Imagine Sundome (arresting technique about 3 cms from target) being allowed to penetrate the target whilst maintaining shomen of both hips and shoulders. Sensei Asai and Kagawa taught shoulder extension in conjunction with hip vibration and hip rotation to brilliant effect.
Best Regards Allan
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Post by Allan Shepherd on Feb 12, 2012 10:27:27 GMT
Hello Alan
Seems strange for me writing "Alan" with one "l".
When I teach kihon techniques I always include all the oi tsuki, gyaku tsuki, gedan barai, uchi uke, soto uke, age uku with hanmi, shomen and gyaku hanmi. This obviously can be expanded upon with other techniques.
The other night I was teaching a group Kihon, Heian Shodan and Nidan kata in ura when some of the class expressed disbelief that it could be done that way!! I explained that they needed to expand their techniques which will in turn will expand their minds.
See I have just expanded my mind with one "l" in Allan. It is not rocket science since all Shotokan techniques are performed left or right depending where our opponent is.
Took them some time for them to realise that for example the opening moves in Heian Nidan before the yoko geri keage uraken is done left and right when the kata is done normal and right and left in ura!!
Best Regards Allan
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Post by Allan Shepherd on Feb 12, 2012 13:06:33 GMT
I live in Skelmersdale, originally from Walton area of Liverpool, moved to West Derby and then Kirkby until married at 19. Ex pupil of Melverley Road primary then Brookfield.
Where are you at now and who do you train with? might know someone you know.
Best Regards Allan
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Post by Allan Shepherd on Feb 12, 2012 15:47:13 GMT
Hi Alan
The name Eric Marshall rings a bell.
My background as a teenager (besides cycling road and track) was judo/jujitsu with Jimmy Blundell from Haymans Green in Liverpool, moving to Shotokan in 1966 at the then Liverpool Red Triangle.
During one of my many visits to the Alvor dojo of Edmundo Reis on the Algarve in Portugal I meet a guy named Robin Singh and his son Alexander who was with JKA England at the Kilburn club of Eric Pich. They are now with SKC England. Robin was in Portugal when the JSKA had their World Championships in Portimao during October 2010.
Best Regards Allan
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