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Post by andyupton on Jun 24, 2012 13:15:22 GMT
I was teaching Hangetsu Kata this morning, and was asked "What is Hangetsu Dachi used for ?" I couldn't think of an answer ! So then, exactly what is the purpose of Hangetsu Dachi ? Apart from just having a different stance to practice ? I am embarrassed to admit that I don't know, being 4th Dan, I feel that I should know, but I don't
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Post by Allan Shepherd on Jun 24, 2012 15:28:44 GMT
Hi Andy
Hangetsu Dachi is an "inside tension stance" and is sometimes described as a longer version of Sanchin Dachi. Because it is an "inside tension stance" the feeling when in it is that the hara/tanden is directed into the ground as a focal point creating great stability. Hangetsu kata is to my knowledge the only kata that Shuri-te and Naha-te have in common being shared by many ryu. There is a breathing method called Ibuki that is done in conjunction with the inhalation and exhalation to emphasis the focal point and kime.
Hangetsu embusen is like Tekki, basically one line vertical as opposed to one line horizontal. I was first taught Hangetsu kata by Sensei Billy Higgins some time in 1974/75 as a middle kyu grade.
Best Regards Allan
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Post by andyupton on Jun 24, 2012 15:55:52 GMT
I did mention to the class about "Inside tension" with the tightening of the knees, buttocks and the stomach. Also pushing with the outside edges of the feet (Sokuto) I mentioned breathing - in through the nose with the Uchi Uke's, out through the mouth with the Chudan Tsuki's. Students and their questions eh ! ;D
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Post by Allan Shepherd on Jun 24, 2012 16:51:53 GMT
Hi Andy
Alas we are all students.
Best Regards Allan
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Post by Paul Bedard on Jun 25, 2012 1:53:57 GMT
Interesting, recently I was going over Hangetsu with some fellow instructors & showing some of my thoughts on bunkai. Hangetsu stance to me is not only inside tension, but used for getting inside (closer) to the opponent, a nice range for joint manipulation, also the more circular action of entering the stance enables one to get around the opponents leg & hook back in against/behind his knee allowing for de-stabilizing & take downs. Also the breathing, this is our goju type kata where we can really emphise full diaphramic breathing. Osu Paul B
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Post by bassaiguy on Nov 23, 2012 2:35:29 GMT
I play around with different stances when punching makiwara and I really like Hangetsu dachi/Gyaku zuki and on the heavy bag Hangetsu dachi with a combination of front arm ura zuki rear arm gyaku zuki. Along with fudo dachi I feel this is one of the strongest stances from which to launch gyaku zuki.
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Post by jimlukelkc on Nov 23, 2012 14:31:03 GMT
Try this as an exercise. Get your partner to try to drag you down ( grappling position ) you will find that the stance with most resistance is either sanchin or hangetsu. As a large part of hangetsu kata can be interpreted as grappling oriented it makes sense.
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Post by Gerry Boyce on Nov 23, 2012 16:50:18 GMT
While this stance is performed with much tension in kata, I personally like it as more of a western-style boxing stance when hitting the heavy bag as well. I'll be on the balls of the foot more and find it very comfortable to use "bobbing and weaving" around the bag. If I'm working on standing-grappling applications then it very good for staying close and stable, while offering some groin protection.
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Post by daveb on Dec 29, 2012 17:14:26 GMT
As most have pointed out, the stance is a cousin to Sanchin dachi and is designed for close quarter combat.
The details of the stance originate from southern Chinese fighting styles. Turning the front knee inwards closes the groin off to rising kicks. It also helps protect the knee and shin from low kicks. Additionally the knee direction can be usefulvfor jamming andlocking the opponents lead leg. Combine this with the crescent stepping and you have a method for clearing kicks, entering the opponents stance especially using shallow angular entry and for generating whipping power a la White crane and other southern kungfu systems.
Inside tension and outside tension are not aspects of my study of stances. The only direction I apply force in a stance is straight down so I can't comment on ideas that are based on this notion. I'd be interested in how inside tension affects this stance.
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Post by elmar on Jan 2, 2013 15:16:03 GMT
IIRC, Hangetsu-dachi was a result of Gigo's attempt to make all stances more challenging by lowering and lengthening them beyond the current practice. So my take is that the stance's application space is just the same as sanchin's. One experiment that I found interesting was to go to the ocean and stand in about 3 feet of water and let the waves push at you. Any outside tension stance will result in your feet migrating away from each other, but sanchin admirably keeps you right where you are. So do we invoke local practice and say that the goju style stances were done by fishermen who might have to fight in water, while the outside tension stances were made by people who fought on flat land, and the weird remaining stances (cat stance, crane stance, etc.) by folks who had to fight on rocks/mountains? Makes an interesting hypothesis, but I don't have any data to support or refute the idea.
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Post by daveb on Jan 3, 2013 0:22:10 GMT
From what I have read the fishermen hypothesis for sanchin dachi was more about fighting on small boats than actually being in water, although both factors may have been relevant.
The problem though with the elongated Sanchin idea is the siesan dachi of the other shorin versions of this kata.They all use some form of short and narrow front stance. It is reasonable to assume that if our Hangetsu dachi is a revision then the original form would be of the same type as the other shorin kata.
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