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Post by kensei on Oct 29, 2012 18:33:34 GMT
So the other day I was teaching for one of my juniors at his club and we have a half hour after the main class to "play around" a bit. I brought out the "toys" (a kick sheild and two sets of Thai pads) to do some impact training with and man was I shocked at the number of people that only practice the four basic kicks! The four basic kicks being the front, side snap, side thrust and round kick. We started off with the round and everyone did okay, but the second we moved to hook kicks or spinning back kicks to have some fun with them and I found that of the 20 plus students that were trying these kids about 4 did very well and adapted to the new kicks and angles very well and the rest...not so much. Do you as an instructor or student do more than the basic 4 kicks in class and if so at what rank do you start introducing these kicks. Next class, inside round house kicks to a coaches mit and outside cresent kicks to the kick sheilds from beside them at close range.
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Post by andyupton on Oct 29, 2012 20:07:06 GMT
I teach ALL kicks : Mikazuki Geri, Ushiro Geri (spinning AND static), Gyaku Mawashi Geri, Kakato Geri, Fumikomi Geri, Ushiro Mawashi Geri, Kin Geri and of course the "main" Keri Waza. Admiitedly, I don't do them ALL the time
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Post by kensei on Oct 29, 2012 21:26:37 GMT
I teach ALL kicks : Mikazuki Geri, Ushiro Geri (spinning AND static), Gyaku Mawashi Geri, Kakato Geri, Fumikomi Geri, Ushiro Mawashi Geri, Kin Geri and of course the "main" Keri Waza. Admiitedly, I don't do them ALL the time At our main branch Dojo, Dingman Sensei teaches simplicity but he does teach all the kicks. I found it interesting that they dont do some of the more "advanced" ones at this club and one student simply looked at me like I was teachign TKD or something and kind of looked dismissive till I showed it in application to a junior black belt.
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Post by malk103 on Oct 29, 2012 22:44:35 GMT
The syllabus we use introduces them gradually as they move up the Kyu grades, although some are rare in lessons as we try to cram in plenty of 3K's, SD, and anything else relevant. I am determined however to keep everything included rather than just sticking to the Syllabus.
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Post by Allan Shepherd on Dec 29, 2012 15:57:53 GMT
Hello James
Looking at this old posting, how (method) or when (level ? kyu grade) were you taught the 4 types of kicks?
Best Regards Allan
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Post by kensei on Dec 30, 2012 3:08:38 GMT
Hello James Looking at this old posting, how (method) or when (level ? kyu grade) were you taught the 4 types of kicks? Best Regards Allan We basically teach the students at white Mae Geri, Yellow belt we start teaching the other kicks if not at white belt. We really focus on the kicks as we move up in rank more. ...but a good white belt should see all of them and know all of them.
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Post by Allan Shepherd on Dec 30, 2012 10:58:28 GMT
Hello James
My question was how and when YOU were taught the 4 types of kicks!!
The reason why I ask is sometimes the more something is "passed on " the less it becomes the original IF not monitored closely. You mentioned in your original posting that the club that you were teaching at was run by one of your juniors so presumably you were taught the 4 basic kicks who you in turn taught to your junior who is now teaching his/her students (16 out of 20) that appear not to understand!
When you look at the 4 "basic" kicks ie mae, keage, kekomi and mawashi geri they contain all the elements (foot position, knee lift, hip presentation etc) to understand all of the other variants which these 4 are based upon.
I was recently invited to a pre Dan grading by an instructor (not of the association that I am in) that I have known for a few years who was going to grade his two 1st kyu's (on a particular Sunday morning) after a two hour lesson which included some of his other students ranging from beginner to Shodan. During and after the pre Dan grading I pointed out in my very humble opinion that I personally felt that the two students should not grade Shodan since they did not understand the basic fundamentals of Kihon and they in turn would teach these anomolies that were inherent in their own Karate. The instructor pointed out that it was down to him that they did not understand!! I had already gathered that these two students were going to be graded Shodan. I declined his offer to attend the actual Dan grading in a further advisory capacity. Maybe I had been to brutally honest since I have not heard from him.
According to his website two weeks later, they were graded Shodan.
Best Regards Allan
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Post by tomobrien on Dec 30, 2012 23:50:22 GMT
It's a coincidence that this thread is posted now. We are doing all the 'fancy' kicks right now. It's so much fun. We seldom use them in serious kumite tho.
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Post by Allan Shepherd on Dec 31, 2012 10:22:32 GMT
Hello Tom
When we do kumite or street defence we are not playing by "queensbury" rules so using any kick from the norm is an advantage. Don't view them as "fancy" kicks because they are not. Nothing in Shotokan is surplus to requirement, nothing is superfluous.
Two examples are mawashi geri and ushiro geri. I recently visited an old 2nd Dan colleague at a club he open 12 month earlier with the intention of teaching but ended up in the line up with all of his Kyu grades. After the session one of his students said he noticed that when I performed both kicks their "presentation" was different from the norm! I explained that when teaching I teach the norm but when practising I "occasionally" change their presentation against my imaginary opponent when doing sanbon or gohon training.
What he was seeing was instead of the normal leg lift for mawashi geri (ie from behind the body) I was lifting as per mae geri (in front of the body) and at the last moment switching the hips into mawashi geri, so much a sharper kick was his comment. Likewise when performing ushiro geri it is the norm to kick with the leg that is "spinning" round to fire at the target. What he was seeing was me placing the spinning leg and kicking with the other! I explained to him that the opponent is not "expecting" the wrong leg!
Best Regards Allan
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Post by kensei on Dec 31, 2012 13:45:46 GMT
Hey Allan, Great points and I am not shocked that the instructor granted Shodan to the students regardless of skill level and your input about that. However, to be more clear...the instructors Dojo I visited is a junior of mine through the organization, I had very little input into his training. He also suffers from a hip issue that limits his range of motion, so after getting his Shodan...I am guessing he basically stopped doing lots of kicks...and teaches them in a limited way. The group had great Mae geri as that is pretty much all that the instructor taught. I tried to show him how to use "models" to teach Yoko geri, which both Keage and Kekomi were horrible in his Dojo, as well as Mawashi geri and Ushiro Geri. But it did not stick. His is other wise a fantastic and careing instructor who develops students who are great people and work hard for the organization. I have decided to visit his club more and basically focus on the weaker points of his class...the kicking. As for my learning kicks, by the Yellow belt grade I knew the Mae Geri, Yoko geri (both) and mawashi geri in a very limited way. By Green I knew them better as well as Ushiro and by brown we were throwing in Ura Mawashi and other less practiced kicks because that was what our instructor did, give us everything to work with and drill the living crap out of us in class till we could not walk or talk after a class. Oh, for the old days!
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