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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2013 10:30:35 GMT
I have been looking at various grading syllabus or syllabi of shotokan clubs and orgs on the net. One of the striking things that stand out is the reliance on the same old basic combinations that are asked for.
If we could make a new grading syllabus what would you take away or add in?
In the kihon section I would like to have more uraken, empi strikes, inside outside shutos, Haito strikes and palm heel strikes. I would like all combos to start from jyu kimae rather than from gedan barai.
Is there a better way of progressing kumite? Should we do kihon ippon kumite to test the early kyu grades rather than gohon kumite?
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Post by Allan Shepherd on Feb 20, 2013 11:35:28 GMT
Hi Alan
Whenever I have taught as a guest instructor I have always complimented the basic kihon techniques by exploring those other kihon such as uraken, haito, taisho, haishu, kumade etc for the students to experience alternative forms of direct attack or block and counter. This has always been a small part of the overall class time. Before we can run we have to learn to crawl and walk first.
Gohon and later Sanbon are for gauging maai which later leads to Kihon Ippon Kumite. They are also used to allow the attacker to attack first as opposed to the defender moving first, by the defender allowing the attacker to attack the norm is to allow the attacker to commit themselves to the point of no return and counter attack with go no sen. To replace Gohon and Sanbon Kumite with Kihon Ippon Kumite would be to remove an integral part of a process that is an essential accumulative part of a learning curve to perfect Sen No Sen.
Best Regards Allan
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Post by kensei on Feb 20, 2013 12:57:41 GMT
We pretty much stick to the JKA style testing requirements for Kyu level, but every once and a while we throw a zinnger in like a drill that the seniors are not used to.
We dropped doing the pencil test a while back but it may make a come back.
Kihon and Kata are pretty much JKA stuff, and Kumite...we do five step for the first few belts, then three step, one step and semi free up to Dan levels and then free for dan levels.
as far as more techniques, I always tell my students to vary it up in sparring, not the same stuff over and over again, but more variety and more techniques.
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Post by elmar on Feb 20, 2013 15:29:28 GMT
The real question is what is the test itself actually for? Is it a "kata" in and of itself, judged on poise, beauty, grace and clarity? Or is it an attempt at "destructive testing" to uncover weak points and make the person break? To my mind, it should be more the former, and never the latter - that kind of destructive testing is supposed to happen in class where it can be ameliorated, and the consequences of "failure" are not personally destructive. As I see it, by the time you are recommended for testing, the actual test should only be a celebration of your skills for others to see, not an attempt to separate out winners and losers. That doesn't mean that you cannot fail, of course, but it should not be because of anything off the wall; it should only be because your own mind has crumbled. So I tend to keep to the classical JKA kihon, kata and kumite for the actual test, since those kihon are nice clear examples of the principle components/tactics/mechanics that illustrate "shotokan" - which is what I mainly claim to be teaching. All IMHO of course
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Post by malk103 on Feb 20, 2013 15:44:32 GMT
I used to think that there should be more range in the Kihon and all training should be more Kata based so that Kumite and Kihon drills would include more sequences from Kata.
But when you think of the range of students....
For those that plod along with an hour a week would start to struggle if given a larger range of techniques or combinations. For the rest that are hungry to learn we try to include as many as possible and throw in new combinations to stretch their minds. But as far as a syllabus is concerned then it should be seen as a minimum, the basics do form part of the building blocks of a good Karateka so should be drilled regularly.
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Post by robbo78 on Feb 20, 2013 16:28:16 GMT
Well for kyu grades as far as im concerned it should be basics which gradually increase in difficulty as you go up into 4th kyu and beyond the more advanced stuff as mentioned in the above replies are for the dan grades. The reason i feel that the lower grades certainly up to 4th kyu should stick to basics so that it is well and truly engrained into there muscle memory making it worth more to them for obvious reasons remember a black belt says that you have mastered the basics. Then the real learning begins!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2013 18:15:55 GMT
Does anyone test bunkai / applications of kata or ask for self defence against: hair pulls, strangles, grabs etc.? or use kick shields and focus pads to assess accuracy and power?
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Post by malk103 on Feb 20, 2013 21:28:14 GMT
We try to get a bit of everything into our lessons, if we had the time then a typical lesson would include Kihon basics or combinations for their next grade Kata training, to the count showing halfway moves then again at full speed Kumite 5/3/1 step, advanced 1 step, semi F/S and freestyle A self defence technique or two, hopefully from a Kata (aren't most of them?), also practiced with a partner - adapted if it's too dangerous. Pad work and punch bags so they can get used to actually whacking something! If Kihon has been a bit slow or technical then a fast combination gradually adding more moves to it, this helps to stretch the lower grades and get some speed out of the higher grades. Speed reaction work, 2/3 move routine with a partner Something fun, mostly to break up the lesson but also to keep the younger ones happy, stuff like forming a circle and randomly attacking a higher grade. Reactive work, if we notice the Mawate or stances are getting slack then it will get drilled until good.
It's okay to stick with basics and 3K's if your students are really keen but I think most people can say they have witnessed a large number of students dropping out, the average Westerner will get bored rigid if you did Shuto Uke's for 30 minutes, especially at school the next day when the TKD boy is boasting about a new kick he's just learnt...
I know i've not been teaching long and this is all my humble opinion but I do think I have a good teacher and I try to train with others. I have been teaching a lot of beginners lately, so far their retention rate is very high. I will do a lot of the above but will try to introduce something new so they are always learning.
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Post by elmar on Feb 21, 2013 13:49:46 GMT
Does anyone test bunkai / applications of kata ... Only above shodan ...
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Post by malk103 on Feb 22, 2013 9:09:59 GMT
Again, we try to introduce Bunkai by showing a few applications and principles during Kata training, we find it helps students to understand what they are learning more and they find it more interesting. Some people seem to be allowed to get to 2/3rd Kyu thinking that Kata is a glorified dance routine and may not be able to work out anything more than the obvious.
Boredom and not understanding are surely high on the list of reasons why people just give up along with thinking that they aren't progressing or learning enough?
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Post by kensei on Feb 22, 2013 13:02:26 GMT
Most of our students train twice a week and test every other testing, so six months between grades. In normal class we do the three K's only and I teach only once a week so I pace myself and do alot of Kumite and Kata, My instructor prefers teaching Kata and kihon as he is very picky and when I teach...."Get yer arse moving" and I beat them with a stick (not really but it would be fun...for me) to move faster and go harder at each other.
However, during the testing portion we dont test Bunkai as its not part of he testing format...but we have a three day seminar that we do and I get to teach each day....the Juniors are all taught by one of our junior black belts and I get the seniors and my instructor watches the classes, evaluates my teaching and gives me feed back...during the seminars I try and do as much application work as possible with everyone and give them something different to work on. Every three months they end up with a clinic of sorts on Bunkai and really learn the ins and outs of their Kata's.
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Post by elmar on Feb 22, 2013 13:46:28 GMT
Again, we try to introduce Bunkai by showing a few applications and principles during Kata training, we find it helps students to understand what they are learning more and they find it more interesting. Yep - it also helps them move correctly in the kata, so I also teach applications as I teach the kata. Don't really "train" them until they are quite a bit more seasoned though.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2013 10:36:15 GMT
Sounds like we all teach a wider syllabus when training but stick to the narrower JKA style syllabus when grading. Fair enough. I guess the grading is down to being an experience for students to demonstrate their best technical excellence and spirit under pressure and as a validation process to get the grade. May also be out of necesity of time pressure on grading day.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2013 10:38:40 GMT
Also think that the narrower testing syllabus does cater for the extremes of age that we can see between the young and old. As I rapidly approach the big 50 I could do with a bit of leniancy myself. Ha Ha.
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Post by malk103 on Feb 23, 2013 10:56:06 GMT
Good point about ages and disabilities etc, if someone has to jump through hoops to pass a grade then you are effectively preventing them from progressing, even if they are a more than capable Karateka with the right spirit. A few of our seniors will never be able to kick someone in the head, not unless they bring the head lower first.....
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2013 15:11:29 GMT
yep, the karate we practice today is a funny thing. It has so much to offer to so many people. Ranging from fitness, sport, self defence, self development, social activity element. It is full of paradox.
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Post by nathanso on Feb 23, 2013 22:17:05 GMT
A test in karate, like any other test, should be designed to demonstrate the proficiency of the examinee in the key elements of the subject in question. IMO and IME, the JKA has been a combination of kihon-centric and tournament-oriented karate, and thus their exams test basic or basic combinations, solo kata performance, and either basic sparring or tournament-style free sparring. If you think that self-defense and/or practical applications of kata are an integral part of karate and include a lot of that in your classes, than your students are not well-served if the tests do not include that as well.
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