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Post by D.Ram on Jun 25, 2013 4:20:18 GMT
I've been reading and going through the Sentei kata, and was wondering - 1) Are there any "unwritten" rules about them, such as which one is normally performed at each Brown grade, and at the Shodan test? 2) Are there any favourites in each school, or are all of them taught with equal importance? Any other notes about these kata are welcome! :-) (Sentei kata, to my knowledge, are Bassai Dai, Kanku Dai, Empi and Jion (source: shotokankaratecsl.com/KATA.html) )
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Post by Allan Shepherd on Jun 25, 2013 9:11:45 GMT
Generally Bassai Dai, Kanku Dai, Jion and Empi are taught in various order depending upon the criteria of each organisation/association. Some even have Hangetsu within the list of Sentei Kata. Some are even taught PRIOR to brown belt.
Each kata after Taikyoku Shodan (Kihon) is supposed to be a progression from the previous so in theory there must be a recognised list within kata order but not necessary grade order. In some organisations/associations after Shodan, kata are not taught specifically for grades but are taught to compliment and understand the links between the various kata.
Best Regards Allan
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Post by elmar on Jun 25, 2013 11:32:49 GMT
As was done for me in the very early 70's, and as I do for my students, the "big 4" are the required curriculum for brown belts; however, one of these is usually "assigned" to be the test kata for the next 3 tests (2nd kyu, 1st kyu and shodan). Other kata may be learned as well (no prohibition - I had all but 2 of the 26 memorized by first kyu). The choice of which is the test kata is normally the instructor's/examiner's and is given to the candidate after they have passed tekki shodan (3rd kyu), and the candidate stays with it for the duration. Only once have I seen Hangetsu assigned. Tekki Nidan and Sandan as well as Sanchin I also add to the curriculum, but that's my personal insanity
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Post by kensei on Jun 25, 2013 12:16:20 GMT
In our wing of the JKA we learn the five H's and then Tekki Shodan and Bassai Dai for all three levels of Brown belt. However, you are supposed to learn the other 15.
I think each organization and wing of each group is a bit different. I have my thoughts on why we do Bassai Dai for essentially a year of your training before black belt (or more) but that is the way it was laid out for us.
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Post by th0mas on Jun 25, 2013 16:27:05 GMT
For KUGB and JKA, back in the day ( 80's) For 3rd Kyu you had to cover bassai-dai, and then for 2nd, 1st and 1st Dan it was Bassai + another (either Jion, Enpi, Hangetsu or Kenkudai). For 1st Dan you would also get a surprise Heian. For me Dave Hazard picked Heian Nedan.
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Post by D.Ram on Jun 27, 2013 6:12:50 GMT
As was done for me in the very early 70's, and as I do for my students, the "big 4" are the required curriculum for brown belts... Elmar, are you suggesting that a member attempting 2nd Kyu would know all the big 4, or only 1-2 of them?
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Post by D.Ram on Jun 27, 2013 6:13:57 GMT
For KUGB and JKA, back in the day ( 80's) For 3rd Kyu you had to cover bassai-dai... Tom, just to clarify - did a member learn Bassai Dai AFTER he got his 3rd Kyu, or did he have to know it for getting to 3rd Kyu?
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Post by Allan Shepherd on Jun 27, 2013 8:25:52 GMT
The "surprise" kata was generally Heian Godan. I have seen students miss out the 2nd Manji Gamae in Godan or even put an extra one in Bassai Dai!!
Best Regards Allan
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Post by Allan Shepherd on Jun 27, 2013 8:33:23 GMT
If you google KUGB grading syllabus it advises Bassai Dai for 2nd Kyu grading so at 3rd Kyu you should have already been taught Bassai Dai in preparation for 2nd Kyu.
Best Regards Allan
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Post by Bob Davis on Jun 27, 2013 9:50:53 GMT
As far as our syllabus goes:
3rd kyu - Tekki Shodan 2nd kyu - Bassai Dai 1st kyu - a choice of Kanku-Dai, Empi, Jion, Jiin or Jitte
You would have had exposure to all these kata from brown belt and although you get to pick one off the list for first kyu to perform to grading standard you'd be expected to know the others well enough to perform them (at least at a sequence level) if asked at grading.
I don't know that this is usual but you would be expected to perform all kata up to your grading kata on the day, not just the latest so for example in the kata section of 2nd kyu you'd be expected to perform: Taikyoku shodan, Heian 1-5, tekki shodan (all x2) then Bassai Dai to finish.
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Post by th0mas on Jun 27, 2013 11:05:41 GMT
For KUGB and JKA, back in the day ( 80's) For 3rd Kyu you had to cover bassai-dai... Tom, just to clarify - did a member learn Bassai Dai AFTER he got his 3rd Kyu, or did he have to know it for getting to 3rd Kyu? As has been indicated, the sylabus may have changed over the last 25 years, but if memory serves this is what I did: - 9th kyu - Kihon
- 8th Kyu - Heian Shodan
- 7th Kyu - Heian Nidan
- 6th Kyu - Heian Sandan
- 5th Kyu - Heian Yondan
- 4th Kyu - Heian Godan
- 3rd Kyu - Tekki Shodan (I seem to remeber doing bassai for all of my brown belt gradings... but the logic doesn't seem to follow)
- 2nd Kyu - Bassai dai + Kendkudai
- 1st Kyu - Bassai dai + Kenkudai (or maybe Enpi.. really can't remember)
- 1st Dan - Bassai Dai, Heian Nedan, Kenkudai
I apologise for the vagueness, I had a 15 year gap between 1st Dan and 2nd Dan (although I was fully training, there was no incentive to grade) so my memory is a little faded. I never did Jion as a formal kata in a grading, Hangetsu I covered at Second Dan with loads of others..3rd Dan was a full 2-day weekend grading and we covered loads of stuff... Bob knows he was there. To answer your question, I believe we learnt Bassai at 4th kyu, but as I mentioned above I am not sure if I was formally tested for it at 3rd Kyu.
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Post by elmar on Jun 28, 2013 12:14:27 GMT
As was done for me in the very early 70's, and as I do for my students, the "big 4" are the required curriculum for brown belts... Elmar, are you suggesting that a member attempting 2nd Kyu would know all the big 4, or only 1-2 of them? I only needed to know only the one assigned kata (and the 5 Heians and Tekki shodan ) up through shodan. Now, I extend the requirements a bit above the JKA standard that was applied to me in 1972, to wit, at 2nd kyu, I also ask for Tekki Nidan. For 1st kyu, the minimum is their assigned kata plus Tekki Sandan. For Shodan it is their assigned kata, and one of the other 3 - note, not a Heian or Tekki - (my choice) as the second kata (plus for me, Sanchin with Shime). So by their Shodan candidacy they have a decent kata store - 5 Heians, 3 Tekki, the "big 4" and Sanchin. Often they will have several more from both inside the JKA 26 and outside. But that's my personal way; other federations have it differently.
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Post by nathanso on Jun 29, 2013 1:39:52 GMT
At Okazaki's dojo in the late 60's- early 70's, everyone did Bassa-dai for the shodan exam. However, as brown belts, we would have done Kanku-dai, Empi, Hengetsu, Jion, and Gankaku at various times during classes. My current club requires B-dai and K-dai, Empi, Hengetsu, Jion, and Tekki 2 for shodan.
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