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Post by Dod Watt on Aug 7, 2013 21:17:42 GMT
To all my karate and martial arts friends out there, I would like to air something that has bothered me over the thirty plus years that I have been training, and that is the way that self-defence is described, and the approach towards making you, 1. Aware 2. Your ability to react 3. Your response time 4. Your safety factor 5. Your fear 6. And your apprehension. Not necessarily in that order, but these are all part of what we have to try to overcome to be able to respond quickly to an aggressor. Now, we have the attitude that a “thinking response” is a “slow response”, which I do understand, but, from day one, regardless of what martial art we do, the first thing and muscle you want to train is your brain, and yes your brain is a muscle, comprising of gray matter and white matter (and a bit of muscle), gray matter is made from the cell bodies of the nerve cells, and the white matter made from the bundles of their axons (which transmits the nervous signals to other neurons or effector cells) , so, we cannot dismiss the fact that everything that we do in our given martial art is a well thought out routine. Now before you start jumping down my throat and say that I’m speaking nonsense, just think, we start our training by observation, and correct me if I’m wrong, all through our training we evolve due to the fact of our observation, i.e. body mechanics, facial expressions and numerous other things that our brain records and stores , we repeat things until we do them spontaneously, without thought, but it is our brain that sends the signals, first through our vision and then to our muscle groups that causes the response to react. Through repetitive training we develop muscle memory, which, if put under pressure becomes a quick reaction/responsive technique . So is a thinking response a slow response, I think not, I think that through diligent training and repetition that the thinking response becomes a quicker reaction, bearing in mind that a reaction starts from the brain sending the signals to the appropriate muscle group to respond ! What do you think ?
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Post by Allan Shepherd on Aug 8, 2013 8:15:34 GMT
Hi Dod
Hope all is well, interesting thoughts on self-defence.
Is it also possible that "the body" reacts to adversity as a pre-cursor to the brain engaging?
To use an analogy it is a bit like us opening our mouths before our brain engages!
Best Regards Allan
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Post by jimlukelkc on Aug 8, 2013 12:54:12 GMT
Most self defence training taught in karate classes consist of the "your opponent does this so you do this" approach. In other words straight to a violent response. Our bodies do react to threat and in predictable ways ( fight or flight ) but we rarely teach people to defend themselves, only to react violently to threats. I think it is important that self defence training elicits these predictable responses by making it as realistic as possible. Three weeks ago we had an entire class devoted to this. We created enclosed spaces with crash mats and had the students padded up, gum shields, headguards etc. We then gave them scenarios to act out but gave each student individual instructions so for instance, two guys drnking in a bar, another guy enters looking for trouble ,posturing, swearing , shouting etc. However we gave instructions to one of them that should it kick off he was to abandon his friend. Or we would onlookers join in etc. Great fun it was too, however at first, when faced with threatening behaviour their reaction was to escalate it straight to violence. I had to point out that self defence is not being there in the first place or leaving if given the chance, swallowing your pride and try to diffuse the situation and listen to your body. If your reaction is flight and you get the opportunity then run! It is of course possible with the right training to learn to control these natural reactions but it is also impossible to learn if the first time you experience the effects of adrenalin dump is in a real confrontation. The bulk of training should be in gross motor skills and keep it to simple techniques that work for you. Certainly include slightly more complex things like joint locks and chokes but make the bulk instinctive and not requiring finesse. It vital you work on awareness and understand the signs of when it is about to turn nasty. I agree with Dod, repetition is important but not with the same compliant partner in a nice cosy, friendly environment. Make it as realistic and no holds barred as you safely can.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2013 14:07:54 GMT
It vital you work on awareness and understand the signs of when it is about to turn nasty. Understanding the rituals of violence is vital, not only for knowing if something will turn physical or not, and therefore knowing if you need to strike pre-emptively, but also for being able to justify that pre-emptive strike later when giving you statement to the Police ;-)
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Post by IanM on Aug 8, 2013 19:31:53 GMT
I think of learning self defence similar to learning to drive. When we first start out we think about everything meticulously. Adjust driving position and rear view mirror, check car is in neutral and handbrake applied etc. Whilst actually driving, we practice the emergency stop, learn to turn etc. After weeks, months (or even years with some people) we do all this sub-consciously without thinking. If a child runs into the road we quickly brake, whilst checking the peripheral of the road and bring the car to a safe halt without thinking about our actions until the danger is clear. Why? Because it is what we were trained to do. I have found myself in more than a few situations where I have had to quickly size up a situation and act quickly and decisively to remove the threat with the correct level of force, either verbally or by going hands on. without much time to think about it. Why? Because it is what I was trained to do. So to answer Dod's point even when we seem to be reacting without thinking, there is some thought goes into it, albeit sub-consciously. I hope you get my point, it's been a long stressful day.
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Post by tomobrien on Aug 9, 2013 1:42:29 GMT
Mushin is a very hard to attain. We are thinking beings.
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Post by garage on Aug 9, 2013 18:08:07 GMT
Elemar in the zanshin threat talks about "no verbal mind".
So rather than "thinking" substitute verbal response. Speech is a high level skill and is normally achieved using the right side of the brain, verbal reasoning.
There are plenty of skills such as juggling and playing an instrument where if you try to think about or verbalise what you are doing you cannot do it fast enough. When I play to an audience if I look at someone in the eye and start thinking words, I cannot tell my fingers what to do quick enough.
Speech is a high level function so requires more processing. So you practice until it becomes a reaction without having to verbalise it. So a verbal response is a slow response. So by the time you have thought they are about to hit me they already have.
If a fist appears in your vision your hand goes up no verbalisation.
"A band or bundle of fibrous tissue in a human or animal body that has the ability to contract, producing movement" to be like most karate forums the brain doesn't contract it is a series of junctions for electrical pulses that travel at .5m per second measured in an experiment.
Animals do not need to speak to hit each other. Elamar's "no verbal mind " describes the thinking better, so you want to use the left side of the brain which is concerned with motor control rather than concious thought rightside.
I would put in my humble opinion but since I am crap I have nothing to be humble about.
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Post by nathanso on Aug 10, 2013 19:05:27 GMT
the first thing and muscle you want to train is your brain, and yes your brain is a muscle, comprising of gray matter and white matter (and a bit of muscle) Actually, your brain is not a muscle, and the only "bit of muscle" in your brain is the smooth muscle in the brain vasculature, not skeletal muscle fibers (the things that move your arms, legs, fingers, etc.) I don't disagree with this, except perhaps to say that your brain integrates or processes visual signals rather than it sending signals through vision. Remember that "muscle memory" is a misnomer, and that what you are developing are the motor patterns that control movement.
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