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Post by andyupton on Sept 30, 2013 19:04:41 GMT
Does anyone know who started the belt colour system of Shotokan Karate ?
When I started training in 1980, there was the following belt colours :
White, white with a black stripe at the end, then white with two white stripes. Then came Yellow, Green, Purple, Purple with one stripe running the entire length of the belt, then brown. Then brown with a white stripe, then Black.
A few years later, Orange and Red belts came along.
So, who started the colour system ?
Someone has suggested Enoeda Sensei, but I doubt that personally.
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Post by kensei on Sept 30, 2013 19:40:37 GMT
it was taken from Judo. My understanding is that the JKA started using it early on and some masters that went out to teach outside Japan took a while to add it.
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Post by andyupton on Sept 30, 2013 23:02:10 GMT
it was taken from Judo. My understanding is that the JKA started using it early on and some masters that went out to teach outside Japan took a while to add it. Okay then, who took the coloured belt idea from Judo and used it for Karate ? Can it, in fact, be narrowed down to one single person ? |
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Post by kensei on Oct 1, 2013 12:40:06 GMT
I dont think it can. Much like "who rebranded Karate to empty hand" we get different masters stepping forwards to take that honor on.
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Post by nathanso on Oct 3, 2013 0:14:57 GMT
I thought that GF gets the credit/blame- He took it from Kano. Certainly, he shows several of his students wearing black belts in To-Te Jitsu published in 1922 and says they were the first to be dan-ranked.
Ohshima says that GF only gave brown and black belts, and that's why students in his SKA still wear white until sankyu. (He also doesn't award ranks above godan because he says that was the highest grade GF ever gave out.)
When I started at Okazaki's dojo in 1967, there was white, green, brown, and black.
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Post by th0mas on Oct 3, 2013 10:15:08 GMT
I agree with Neil, I understood that Kano used the concept of coloured belts for Judo, and GF adopted the same model for Karate in Japan.... and gosh isn't it an insidious method that plays directly to the part of the brain that appreciates small bite sized task and reward stimulus..
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Post by malk103 on Oct 12, 2013 20:02:21 GMT
I agree with Neil, I understood that Kano used the concept of coloured belts for Judo, and GF adopted the same model for Karate in Japan.... and gosh isn't it an insidious method that plays directly to the part of the brain that appreciates small bite sized task and reward stimulus.. I've read the same. I personally would happily go back to white/brown/black but it's the modern system and business model that demands we take little steps and get a pat on the back for each grade, a new coloured belt and certificate. For some clubs it's a money spinner, most use it as a record of where they are in the system, others can't wait to be "awarded". |
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Post by th0mas on Oct 15, 2013 9:08:12 GMT
Well it worked for me as a teenager, I single mindedly chased those coloured belts... if I am honest I probably haven't worked so hard for something before or since... :-)
...kind of really slowed down my rate of new belt acquisition once they all became the same colour... am I really that shallow?
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Post by kensei on Oct 16, 2013 15:41:18 GMT
It kind of sucks that we need to hold the carrot up in front of students, hell even the black belt is a bit of a carrot at times. I understand that you need incentive but the truth is, after having my black belt for nearly 20 years I would still do Karate if rank was wiped off the table as it were!
The belt colors were created by Judo, I dont know if you can pin point Kano per see but he was the leader of that group at the time it came out.
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Post by gazrichards on Oct 17, 2013 0:28:44 GMT
The thing about karate ranks is that those with a high rank often see no purpose in ranks.
You often hear high grades (5th dan 6th dan etc) say they would train in a white belt and couldn't care less what grade they officially are
If a 4th kyu sad the same thing I'm sure many of us would feel very differently about the subject.
Also how many of those 5th and 6th dans would reach such a high status of knowledge (not rank) if the carrot of a black belt wasn't put before them
To add to the discussion I shall disclose that I am a 5th dan and I train in shorts and t shirt usually. I wear a gi and black belt to teach in
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Post by garage on Oct 17, 2013 4:23:47 GMT
Yes they say they would wear a white belt, talks cheap.
On the other hand I do wear a white belt and you are judged by it. I one guy in the pub afterwards couldn't understand why he spend most of the evening lying on the floor as he just assumed he could walk over me and left himself open and wouldn't adapt.
After teaching thousands of classes I sometimes slip and try to help people, they won't listen, or even pretend to be polite, as they don't think you could possible know what you are talking about.
I delibratly stopped teaching classes (moved job made it easy) as I felt I was standing about telling people what to do and if I spent 2 mins in a 2 hours session doing something that made me improve it was the exception.
I never wanted a Blackbelt I was told they would no longer teach me if I didnt take it, I believe those instructors no longer practice. I still thank them for their time and wish them well.
If teach somebody I except they can become much better then I will ever of dream of, I do not believe this is something the belt system grasps.
I am deeply humbled by some people I have taught, they have become brilliant. Sometimes they are ask my opinion respectfully, they suppassed me years ago and I view them as people not students and encourage them to think for themselves. The belt system fails badly in this respect but, obviously allows development instead of just talent culling, where you only bother with the best.
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