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Post by stevenm on Nov 9, 2013 12:01:11 GMT
I have been thinking for a while, how much time should instructors devote to conditioning? Should instructors simply stress the importance of having the body 'tailored' to whatever activity you choose to do, with occasional demonstrations, and let the students work on their own conditioning? Is it important psychological training, to endure discomfort, to foster willpower? Personally, I think that it can be a bit of a distraction at times. Students are paying for Karate tuition, not Gym sessions. This is not a criticism of my own instructors, by the way, just an observation based on youtube uploads from various clubs, many of whom seem preoccupied with it. Conditioning is very important to Karate, but is it Karate?
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Post by Allan Shepherd on Nov 9, 2013 14:11:46 GMT
Hi Steven
Some ryu have very obvious conditioning as an inherent part of their training, in particular Goju and Kyokushinkai.
Shotokan conditioning is more subtle and has for many years veered towards the "body dynamics" aspects of physical training. On our informal Wednesday night kata class we preform kata at various paces, for example normal...slow relaxed...half and half (from stance to interim position to stance)...slow with tension etc. Similar thing can be done with kihon very much like Weider did with his dynamic tension training, no weights just tensing and relaxing the body. This is why it is so important to stress contraction and expansion to students during training.
I remember training on Majorca with a group of Kyokushinkai karateka during September 2009 (I was 62 for god sake, like I need conditioning!!) and some of their partner work was torso and inner/outer thigh conditioning. Woke up the following morning to go swimming with my speedo's and my wife asked what the hell was all the bruising about!!
For me personally there is enough of the right type of training within the Shotokan syllabus to support my 2 x hernia, 3 x disc prolapses etc.
Best Regards Allan
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Post by garage on Nov 9, 2013 16:33:14 GMT
I always feel that "I teach karate" you work out the rest yourself is a cop out. If by condition that is you mean being flexible and fit enough, not just take a battering for the hell of it.
So you need to get flexible to get into the stances and fit enough not to puke. So what other activities prepare you for range involved in karate other than Karate?
If you karate instructor can't be bothered I would suggest, ballet, gymnastics, technogym would cover some of it.
As for a classes than last just an hour, that covers the warm up when you going to learn anything?
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Post by Allan Shepherd on Nov 9, 2013 17:55:50 GMT
Hi Bert
One hour warm up...sounds like a callisthenics class not a karate class!! No wonder the leaving rate is so high if this is the time instructors spend warming their classes up.
Generally in my experience students who have been graded are encouraged to arrive early at their lesson and do their own warm up in preparation for the "class" 10 minute or so warm up, after all the object of the exercise is to teach karate is it not?
I have always encouraged students to work on flexibility/stretching etc on a daily basis when they have the time at home (only takes 10 to 15 minutes) rather than restrict it to 2 or 3 classes a week. Probably one of the reasons why I can still do the splits without a warmup!!
Best Regards Allan
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Post by stevenm on Nov 9, 2013 20:36:20 GMT
I think that if a student has stuck around long enough to reach the mid-kyu grades, then they are serious enough about karate to begin fitness and conditioning. Before that, I feel we run the risk of driving beginners away, if they are paralysed or in complete agony, the morning after every lesson! I myself got to about 5th kyu, quit smoking, and got myself into shape, to improve my Karate. Those who care enough will make the effort.
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Post by garage on Nov 10, 2013 12:38:46 GMT
This reminds me of the 70's series Kung Fu where cain waits outside the temple to see if he is worthy of training.
If they are paying to learn Karate and you have a class of about 20-50 you do not know who has done a pre warm up, I think it is responsible to ensure that the whole class has some sort of preparation for training. Telling beginners to take a hot bath to ease the muscles they have just put in positions is also equally off putting.
In gyms they do inductions which just covers basic heath and safty to avoid injury but often do not show how to train with the equipment. Back to Karate classes. You also do not know who is going to turn up to each class so you need to cover what was covered in previous classed to allow progression. One of the the things about shotokan is the repartition so that some of the techniques actually get in the muscle memory and become useful.
If you go to a wado class the techniques are complicated compared to shotokan and you never practice them enough to really learn them.
I would suggest 15 minutes to make sure every one is warm then 15 minutes do karate basics for dynamic stretching and combinations then Kata revision then working on this months featured kata then sparring to practice what you have learn in the kata finishing with a general warm down with some static stretching. Which I find fits into 90 minutes. I find an hour isn't enough and I tend to get more injuries.
I think you need to train a minimum of twice a week to make even slow progress. Is Karate only for people who train themselves and a bit masochistic? In the 19th Century I sure the fitness side was part of it as it was one of karates' things. Funokoshi was meant to be a sickly child which is why he started it. There is research of top karate instructors that show there is no corelation between Karate training and long life so perhaps you are right.
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Post by dhodge on Nov 10, 2013 16:11:21 GMT
My old club started going to the extremes of conditioning training to the point we lost older kyu grades due to them being pushed way beyond their limits. When we were part of the SKIGB group most of our training was for traditional Karate purposes. Since moving groups the competition side of things became more and more the norm. Classes became more fitness based and the tippy tappy game of tig that is sports karate. When in the club you didn't notice the change in training but upon reflection it was a big turn around in direction for the club. I think improving your fitness is a must a proper warm up and cool down is essential but pad work and learning how it feels to hit hard are as essential.
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Post by tomobrien1 on Nov 11, 2013 1:51:08 GMT
Here's what we did today - Sunday afternoon @ The Ronin Martial Arts Club! Jumping jacks, stretching, sit-ups, V-ups, push-ups to warm up! Kata - Heian shodan, Heian godan, sanseiryu, & jion. Speed is the theme one guy is the target & the other guy has to hit/kick em quick. Good work! I ran 4 miles this morning before the afternoon training. I expect my students to do a lot of conditioning on their own. I'm 65, so if I can do it so can they. The warm up only takes 10 - 15 mins
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