Post by kensei on Apr 24, 2014 11:23:40 GMT
My research outside of what my instructors instructor taught me has just opened another door for me that I was not actually told, or was told the opposite of as well, so my mind is a fresh blank canvas again for some new ideas as the old set thinking patterns are shattered again!
Always looking for new things to look up and research, just read an old book that I had in my collection that I had not gotten around to reading and Motobu Choki stated that Itosu was NOT infact a student of Matsumura sokons and much of what we thought was passed on through Itosu was actually not Matsumura's Karate at all.
Interesting to say the least as we had been told by Yaguchi Sensei for years the lineage and how Itosu and Azato were not just best buds,but training partners as both were Matsumura students. When asked about the lineage of our Karate YEARS ago when I was with the ISKF I was told that Funakoshi Gichin learned his Karate from Itosu and Azato, who shared the same name of Anko. They both were students of Matsumura Sokon, who in turn learned from Sakukawa Kanga. The linear nature, I think, reinforced the idea that you only have one instructor...but this is so very far from the truth.
Itosu trained under Matsumura, but the instructor did not like Itosu and soon the young Itosu left training to go and train under Gosokuge and also Nagahama Chikudun. In fact he was said to have trained with several masters. Azato only had the one instructor but looking at the lineage its more like an out of control tree. Azato only trained with Matsumura but Matsumura trained with Annan/Chinto and Sakukawa who in turn had a few instructors.
And moving forwards Funakoshi did not only train with Azato and Itosu, he also worked under Matsumura himself and a few others. The list of instructors that students traveled to is not clear in some cases but in others it shows a diverse number of instructors that students would train under, which makes sense because the Karate world back then was actually very small, not like today.
Back when Karate was in its childhood the number of instructors in Okinawa was probably very low, good instructors less! So, for a serious student to want to train with great masters would probably be a few hours walk from their home town at most. From what I have read Motobu Choki and Chibanan Choshin were the two that had the most instructors they count as instructors and not just someone they worked out with. Motobu learned from five different instructors I can find and Chibana from five as well.
So, is it completely out of the box to think that today we should be looking to do the same thing? And holding our students back from looking around, is that the best for them as well??
Always looking for new things to look up and research, just read an old book that I had in my collection that I had not gotten around to reading and Motobu Choki stated that Itosu was NOT infact a student of Matsumura sokons and much of what we thought was passed on through Itosu was actually not Matsumura's Karate at all.
Interesting to say the least as we had been told by Yaguchi Sensei for years the lineage and how Itosu and Azato were not just best buds,but training partners as both were Matsumura students. When asked about the lineage of our Karate YEARS ago when I was with the ISKF I was told that Funakoshi Gichin learned his Karate from Itosu and Azato, who shared the same name of Anko. They both were students of Matsumura Sokon, who in turn learned from Sakukawa Kanga. The linear nature, I think, reinforced the idea that you only have one instructor...but this is so very far from the truth.
Itosu trained under Matsumura, but the instructor did not like Itosu and soon the young Itosu left training to go and train under Gosokuge and also Nagahama Chikudun. In fact he was said to have trained with several masters. Azato only had the one instructor but looking at the lineage its more like an out of control tree. Azato only trained with Matsumura but Matsumura trained with Annan/Chinto and Sakukawa who in turn had a few instructors.
And moving forwards Funakoshi did not only train with Azato and Itosu, he also worked under Matsumura himself and a few others. The list of instructors that students traveled to is not clear in some cases but in others it shows a diverse number of instructors that students would train under, which makes sense because the Karate world back then was actually very small, not like today.
Back when Karate was in its childhood the number of instructors in Okinawa was probably very low, good instructors less! So, for a serious student to want to train with great masters would probably be a few hours walk from their home town at most. From what I have read Motobu Choki and Chibanan Choshin were the two that had the most instructors they count as instructors and not just someone they worked out with. Motobu learned from five different instructors I can find and Chibana from five as well.
So, is it completely out of the box to think that today we should be looking to do the same thing? And holding our students back from looking around, is that the best for them as well??