Classic shotokan?

[Josh Bore]

Probably a stupid question but looking through loads of the older threads I've seen the word "classic" and "traditional" shotokan thrown around but I'm not entirely sure on what makes it classic or traditional. Is there multiple variations of shotokan? Any answers would be helpful

[Bob Davis]

I wouldn't worry about it too much at your stage of training. It doesn't affect the fundamentals or techniques you'll be learning currently as they should be the same whatever.

The whole thing has really come up due to on going arguments over what is traditional karate and particularly what is traditional Shotokan. The father of Shotokan was Funakoshi Gichin but the "Traditional" karate we see taught as Shotokan these days is not really very similar to his karate (which follows an earlier style) and is really based on the karate of Nakayama sensei and Funakoshi Yoshitaka (Gigo) and dates a lot later than the original. However the term "Traditional" has been claimed by JKA (and it's spin off's) style Japanese karate despite it being a newer version and methodology of karate than that originally trained in Okinawa. So it's just an attempt to differentiate between those who train in "Traditional" (tm) karate and those of us who follow the more traditional path of the earlier Okinawan model. See, it's easy really

So from my point of view I think of modern Shotokan as "Classic" (despite the fact that they think about themselves as traditional) because the way they train is the picture the general public get in their heads when you mention karate and I think of the older styles and methods of karate as "traditional" because that's the way they have been taught for far longer. It's all just words really (and karate people on a forum love a good argument ).

[Josh Bore]

Thanks for helping clear things up, I'm just not sure if the club I go to is traditional or not because it says traditional in the logo text but as you said "So from my point of view I think of modern Shotokan as "classic" (despite the fact that they think about themselves as traditional)"

[Bob Davis]

Nothing to say I'm right or anybody else is wrong, it's just opinion.

[th0mas]

Hi Bob,

It's funny but I swap the meaning of classic and traditional when I think of your very well articulated definition :-)

I.e "classical" is what was done in ancient times (for shotokan karate pre 1922) where as "traditional" is how most shotokan clubs train... In my mind it is closely associated with the pragorative term Dogma.

.... One for the pub methinks :-)

[Bob Davis]

That's where it gets difficult to define, the difference between "Traditional"(tm) and the actual meaning of the word traditional. You are right, this can only really be solved over a beer (although not for Josh )

I see to recall using the very word "Dogma" on the Ryukyu page just this morning in the discussion about Iain's latest article

[th0mas]

Ooooo. I haven't read that yet... Thanks for the heads up

[Bob Davis]

Talk about being inconsistent, having just re-read my website it would appear that I describe what I do as "Classical" (so I can't agree on the terminology even in my own head )