|
Post by Ernst on Feb 24, 2011 11:33:28 GMT
What do you guys think about Nakayama senseis "Best Karate" books as a foundation for your shotokan training? Is it just a brief/shallow presentation of shotokan, or do you think it touches the many elements and deeper understanding of shotokan karate? Had a couple of discussions in my club about this, as we are supposed to have BK as a "model" of our karate. Have been travelling at various courses, with various senseis the last decade and almost every time come home with new and fresh inspiration, new ways to look at things we have "always" done in our training. In my opinion, this clearly is a good thing, as my karate grows from the experiences. It is often said that "thats a good exercise or method, but we are suppose to follow Best Karate"
But, when do we not follow Nakayamas teachings anymore? Any thoughts?
|
|
|
Post by fujicolt on Feb 24, 2011 11:44:32 GMT
Hi Ernst
I personally think that there is not yet a book which fully explains the full arsenal of shotokan techniques, strategies, tactics and training requirements.
However if you combine Best Karate with Dynamic Karate and the JKA video series you will have a good fundamental view of a fair amount of material. I have heard of several groups that are no longer with the JKA and thus say we use 'x' book or 'y' DVD's as our basis. I find this to be a very limiting approach myself and feel it is a cop out by organisation seniors to try and suggest a 'JKA@ basis.
Karate is constantly evolving and i think the work of the likes of Asai Sensei shows this. However, Karate is no longer owned by the Japanese and there are MANY very good non japanese seniors around these days.
I would suggest that you take an approach of - I will learn from anywhere - especially so via bringing knowledgable instructors to my Dojo or travelling to access them on courses and camps etc. this is how my group and I have functioned for over twenty years and it is a joy when students (some of them very senior in their own right) come back inspired and with information to help us all develop.
Many organisations are scared they will lose students if they allow them to 'roam'. I have found the opposite to be true - encourage them to explore - and they stay and enjoy contributing to everyones skill and understanding with the things they bring back - even if they come back and say - 'That was crap - we must not do that'.
|
|
|
Post by kensei on Feb 24, 2011 15:55:34 GMT
My thoughts are that the BK and dynamic Karate should reprosent the foundation of what you do as Karate. The basic building blocks. Then you must go out and explore, DO KARATE and learn more from others and yourself. But if you need a gentle reminder of what is and is not the basics of Shotokan then you revisit the foundation books.
That being said, A book should never be your instructor....and your instructors should never be "By the book".
Explore and grow! But keep firm roots...
|
|
|
Post by redbudo on Feb 24, 2011 18:18:23 GMT
You should have it! Also Nishiyama; also Egami.
But, I think of these and others as reference; not as how-to cookbooks.
Same topic with a slightly sideways slant.
I get very impatient over arguments of orthodoxy vs heresy in the same way I get very impatient over theological questions revolving the literal reading of religious text. This was once explained to me by a pretty smart theologian who explained that a good way of looking at religious writings (G-written vs G-inspired) was to consider them a body of work meant to teach us about the nature of G.
Same thing with these seminal books.
After saying that - there are a couple of books where I encountered an idea and I just had to clear a space and try them out!
Both of them were written by Hirokazu Kanazaw--Black Belt Karate: The Intensive Course; and the SKI Kumite Kyohan.
So, I looked to others for principles. Kanazawa for actual on the street techniques to develop.
Hope this helps,
Chuck
|
|
|
Post by fujicolt on Feb 24, 2011 19:22:55 GMT
Gotta ask then Chuck. You describe yourself as 'a flake' who dipped in and out. well in that case you clearly are a dip in and out flake (cadbury's maybe! - sorry visual imagery captured my train of thought there) - were was I?
Oh yes - you are surely a flake who has dipped in and out BUT read a great deal. Your too knowledgable to be relying on decades old memories!
So what stopped you putting that effort into DOING it rather than just reading about it?
genuinely curious that's all?
|
|
|
Post by Paul Bedard on Feb 24, 2011 19:42:32 GMT
I`m with the mind set of BK & dynamic karate being the foundation. To me this is like any textbook on any subject. If you stay by the book, you can achieve 85% but that is it. To do better require that you spend the time & effort to do your own research & make what you have learned work for you. If you know the answers by thinking a second & the recite some one elses work, you are still learning your subject. If you can spontaniously come up with the answer in your own way ( action, without thought ), then you know your subject.. Osu Paul B
|
|
|
Post by redbudo on Feb 24, 2011 20:52:30 GMT
To answer Steve Hyland's query - why not practice?
Thank you for the ego boost (I think).
Here's the story. Remember, you asked for it. In 1972 I was in Sensei Haramoto's JKA Northern California dojo participating in an evening sparring class.
Floored with tatami and one of them slipped when my front foot landed during a lunge. I went down, stood up, felt ok and started again. One step and I went down again and stayed down. It seems that I had blown the ACL along with the meniscus.
In those days knee rehab efforts were not as advanced as they are today so I opted to do nothing besides cycling around the East Bay and swimming. But dynamic karate moves were out. Yes, I hobbled in & out of various schools as a way to keep my hand in but I could no longer do what I had earlier done.
So, I've dabbled with this and that looking for solutions that placed fewer demands on the knee joint. I became acquainted with Ted Lucaylucay who patiently showed me the basics of lateral & diagonal movement in the context of the naked blade and escrima sticks. Chai Sirisute.
Hideharu Igaki with some side trips to Marutani's dojo for some astonishing sparring insights. Rigan Machado and his brothers Carlos & John in Brazilian ground wrestling where I met Chuck Norris as well as Rorion and Royce Gracie.
Ben Otake who was 'the man' during the very brutal early days at Tak Kubota's gym. Ben was quite the gentleman and martial arts deep thinker who passed on to me some really seminal fighting insights.
Then I met Aleksei Tchigirinski in Santa Barbara through a fluke. A Soviet grappler. Rigan Machado & his brothers were interested in Aleksei's ideas so I drove them from Redondo Beach to the UCSB gym for an all day workout with Aleksei.
It turned out that Aleksei held an International Master of Sport designation from Moscow State University which is arguably the finest institution of learning on the planet for human performance sports. Aleksei's designation permits him to teach at the international level (ie, the Olympics) any of the grappling arts--freestyle wrestling; greco-roman wrestling; judo; sambo. In fact, he was brought in to assist in preparing someone who actually did win a gold medal in 1980)
Aleksei once asked me to help him out with a client. I would be the throw-around dummy for Michael Douglas's son who needed some pointers for his high-school wrestling. I'm not making any of this up.
Aleksei is a valued friend to this day and we speak to each other nearly every day. He lives in Vegas. One of his infrequent visitors is Anatoli Pisarenko a former Olympic lifter and record holder. He's the one who bested Vasili Alekseyev's records. For a while Anatoli was head of the Ukrainian Olympic Committee. I don't know if he still is.
I experience serious ventricular fibrillation problems about 11 years ago. Fixed that but had to do some rehab. Congestive heart failure. So, Aleksei took upon himself the role of rusty nail and forced me to engage free-weights in a serious way. Lost 70 pounds in 7 months. Cholestrol north of 200 down to 118 in the same time. BP 200/90 down to 127/65. Changed my diet of course.
If this isn't enough, there's the Santa Barbara connection w very dear friends, Dave & Janie Thoreson. Friends for 36 years. Dave was an Olympian in the decathlon. I would meet him in the early mornings & go along for his workouts with John Warkentin and Jean-Louis Ravelomanantsoa. Jean-Louis was the worlds fastest human for a while. A sprinter from Madagascar. John Warkentin was slated for the '80 Moscow Olympics in the decathlon except for Jimmie Carter. But one of his sons was at Beijing in open water swimming. I met many superior athletes through the Thoresons. Jim Ryun (first under 4 minutes high-school miler) actually led an impromptu prayer session for my still bad knee.
So, that's the short version by way of answering your question. I can't say that I read that much but I am very much a student of the game and I have been very lucky in my associations. All of my so-called insight comes from these associations, not from book learning. I firmly believe that there is a tremendous amount of crossover between most physical disciplines. The same principles apply whether we are delivering force to a target or in applying it to perform an overhead lift.
My knee still hurts and I'm really careful about going down stairs.
You asked, Steve. And I felt sufficiently comfortable about giving you a straight answer.
Cheers,
Chuck
|
|
|
Post by fujicolt on Feb 25, 2011 9:00:26 GMT
thanks for taking the time to answer - an interesting journey you have had - explains alot. straight answers are welcomed here so chill and enjoy the forum. i totally get your point about thinks interlinking - strange as it may seem studying for my pilots licence improved my understanding of karate
|
|
|
Post by Ernst on Feb 25, 2011 9:45:04 GMT
Thank you for your sharing of experiences and approaches, folks! It only makes me realise that i have to continue searching, travelling and gather information from the various, great sources that we are so lucky to have around As so many of you have said, it is great to have a platform in a written piece, but to evolve we have to broaden our horizon by hands-on, up to date experiences and information. Really appreciate your time and effort to reply
|
|
|
Post by Paul Bedard on Feb 26, 2011 4:13:04 GMT
I love questions like this. It is to me a calibration to see how many of us think the same way. A high number i`m proud to say!! Thanks for posting this Ernst.. Osu Paul B
|
|