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Post by grunners4 on Mar 31, 2011 9:19:32 GMT
Just had a look at our org's dan grading requirements from shodan upwards - there is a clause that states to be eligible a candidate has to have attended a referees course and actively taken part in an official event as table official or judge depending on grade. Anyone else have this?
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Post by kensei on Mar 31, 2011 13:33:44 GMT
We dont have that, but I think its a good idea. Personally I am sick of two things. people testing and grading for black belt who do NOTHING for an organization but show up for the testing, and SOME of the training. And testing that is based completely on sport aspect of Karate. No questions, no seeing if they understand the stuff that they are "performing". I would like to see more testing that is based not just on the pure physical component of Karate.
My instructor GRILLs students on Karate before a test is even allowed. But I happen to know that a few organizations we have been part of in the past dont.
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Post by dek1 on Nov 30, 2011 11:14:30 GMT
Their must be minimum of 6 months between 1st Q minimum of 60 classes at your own Dojo, You must attend the Honbu Dojo (roughly an hours drive max for all clubs) once per month and attend the four courses per year to sit a Dan Grade. The cost of the Dan grade is £28 if you incl the extra courses would be no more than £100 for a student.
I know our old Association you had to do the courses, summer camp, national squad training and other requirements to sit a Dan grade which made it over £900 extra in the year on top of normal costs for our students.
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Post by malk103 on Nov 30, 2011 14:40:39 GMT
£900 is a bit excessive, that would result in putting BB out of reach of a lot of our students and would mean you would have to wait until you could afford it rather than if you were ready.
6 months training at twice a week minimum, some teaching experiences and the go-ahead from the Senior instructor. There was a 1st Kyu when I first started that stayed a 1st Kyu for over 2 years and eventually gave up, he didn't put in enough effort/training so never got told he could grade. They certainly shouldn't be given away due to time done.
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Post by Syl Walsh on Dec 4, 2011 19:50:17 GMT
To be a Referee or Judge for a Dan Grade can't be right! Unless it is a Sport Karate group!
Empty cans make the most noise.
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Post by fujicolt on Dec 5, 2011 3:08:11 GMT
Grunners dear chap - here is a little extract from my book. it reads very much out of context here but as you can see I am kinda criticising Grading Examination requirements. I hope you get the points i am making - you will when you read it all. Enjoy I Hope!
Sadly though several current practices within the standard Shotokan systems, by both omission and commission, are limiting the ability of students to fully develop this essential skill: · The failure to fully study the complete Shotokan syllabus – regular practice creates familiarity with a technique. You will come to be more instinctive about how and when to use it. This can be witnessed clearly with Gyaku Tsuki that is undoubtedly the counter punch weapon of choice for the vast majority of Shotokan Karateka due to the frequency of its occurrence in Kihon and Kumite practice and the number of times it appears within the Shotokan Kata. However, you will find only a comparatively few number of Karateka whom would be equally comfortable with using Furi Tsuki (swinging punch), Ura Tsuki (upper cut/close punch) or Wanto Uchi (arm Sword Strike). The rarely seen use of such blows is in no way a suggestion that they are less than efficient techniques. In fact, once understood they are immensely effective techniques but alas they are either infrequently practiced or even totally omitted from the commonly used training programs and grading examination requirements. What a waste!
In terms of targeting these omissions deplete the Karateka’s versatility and choice of targets to aim for. It has to be understood that Gyaku Tsuki, as efficient as it is, is NOT the solution to all attack or counter-attack situations · The problem is not confined to hand techniques alone. Commonly used Training and Examination programs will invariably use the following Keri Waza: Mae Geri Yoko Geri Keage Yoko Geri Kekomi Mawashi Geri Ushiro Geri Gyaku Mawashi Geri However how often do we see any of the following Kicking techniques selection listing being studied with the same frequency? Mikazuki Geri Hiza Geri Mawashi Hiza Geri Gyaku Mawashi Hiza Geri Yoko Mawashi Geri Fumikiri Geri Furi Geri Fumikomi Geri Otoshi Kakato Geri Mawashi Ashi Bo Geri Kin Geri Mae Tobi Geri Yoko Tobi Geri
Again this omission hugely limits the Karateka’s targeting abilities and thus diminishes his ability to achieve Accuracy of Technique Placement.
The same problem can be seen with Blocking techniques, Parrying techniques, Leg Blocking Techniques, Striking techniques, Sweeping and throwing techniques, Stances, and Grabbing and locking techniques. All of them suffering with a woefully incomplete list of what is practiced regularly or examination requirements - Again limiting the Karateka’s targeting potential.
I have several times heard the following ‘excuses’ for the non-inclusion of so many techniques in the common Training and Grading Examination requirements: 1. They are too dangerous for Kyu or Lower Dan grade Students! My answer to this is simple – ‘What a load of hypocritical nonsense!’ A well-executed Gyaku Tsuki can kill you! End of story. If we can trust Students with this it is absurd to pretend that Wanto Uchi or Mikazuki Geri should not be included – they are in the Heain Kata anyway – Good Grief. 2. ‘They are too physically difficult for lower grades to be able to accomplish and master!’ Again a simple answer ‘Absolute Bunkum!’ – the physical coordination required to execute Jodan Mawashi Geri or Ushiro Geri is immense when examined with an educated eye and a sound understanding of human physiology and Biomechanics. Yet these techniques are introduced early – and quite rightly so as they will take time to master. Karateka are generally well intended, law abiding intelligent people and if they are not the training regime itself will swoon root them out. It is, in my honest opinion, patronising and unwarranted for students to be treated as witless morons whom are likely to go and ‘try out’ their Karate on Gran or some loud mouth drunk in the local bar.
Karate is dangerous and very difficult to truly master – this is absolutely not denied – all the more reason to deal with this from the get go and allow students to develop a full and applicable arsenal of techniques to defend themselves with.
‘To give a man a job to do without the tools to do it is folly – because one cannot follow the other!
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Post by kensei on Dec 5, 2011 14:50:36 GMT
To be a Referee or Judge for a Dan Grade can't be right! Unless it is a Sport Karate group! Empty cans make the most noise. Not sure what you mean. Different terms I think. A testing instructor can be called a JUDGE or his seniors who are on teh board could be called Referees.
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Post by fleur on Dec 6, 2011 0:31:41 GMT
Kensei, Shogunsan as I do take the terms Referee and Judge to be officials at tournaments. Maybe we misread the initial post but I believe the first post implies that unless the student has sat the appropriate tournment based training to allow you to officiate on a table at an event and then actioned those new skills in such an event, then they would not be elligable to grade. If I have read this correctly, I agree with Shogunsan, I don't see relevance in that requirement. For me your dan grade should represent who you are - your personal skill set and your attitude towards your training, your peers and your club. If it is a heavily tournament based club then maybe I can understand the requirement as it forms part of the clubs culture. My club is not heavily tournament based so fortunately for me it is not a requirement. :-)
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Post by kensei on Dec 6, 2011 3:28:58 GMT
Kensei, Shogunsan as I do take the terms Referee and Judge to be officials at tournaments. Maybe we misread the initial post but I believe the first post implies that unless the student has sat the appropriate tournment based training to allow you to officiate on a table at an event and then actioned those new skills in such an event, then they would not be elligable to grade. If I have read this correctly, I agree with Shogunsan, I don't see relevance in that requirement. For me your dan grade should represent who you are - your personal skill set and your attitude towards your training, your peers and your club. If it is a heavily tournament based club then maybe I can understand the requirement as it forms part of the clubs culture. My club is not heavily tournament based so fortunately for me it is not a requirement. :-) Perhaps its because I agree with you guys that I got confused. I would NEVER Say that you need to do tournaments to rank. They did that to us in Judo and I hated it. I did just the minimum and finally the instructor told me unless I stopped doing Karate and focused on my tournament participation the most I could ever hope for was SHodan...which I got and quit. I dont find tournament training to be interesting or even relevent..and the whole judge thing threw me.
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Post by fujicolt on Dec 6, 2011 11:30:34 GMT
Sorry to interupt the drift but returning to the Grading Requirement issue - what is the normal grading fee range for you guys - Kyu and Dan gradings and does the grading involve a preliminary Course in the price?
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Post by kensei on Dec 6, 2011 14:32:47 GMT
$60 testing and seminars for Kyu, the Dan is set up through our national body so I dont really know the prices.
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Post by superjock on Dec 6, 2011 18:16:41 GMT
$60 testing and seminars for Kyu, the Dan is set up through our national body so I dont really know the prices. $0.00
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Post by fujicolt on Dec 7, 2011 4:45:37 GMT
a bit too cryptic for me there Andrew - or are you saying you grade your students for free?
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Post by superjock on Dec 7, 2011 18:06:22 GMT
a bit too cryptic for me there Andrew - or are you saying you grade your students for free? Right on the button Steve All my (very few count with all fingers) students are also my friends it just wouldn't feel right to be charging them for what is in all probability a worthless grade. I have never held that fact back from them always tell them ''that in all probability if they moved to another club/association they would have to re-grade or in some cases start over again.'' To date this has never been a problem. Also I never hold a grading until I feel that they are ready so instead of the obligatory 3 months between, can sometimes be 6 months or more. Again this to date has never been a problem. New guys should know that I am not interested in making money from my students/friends I just want somewhere to train and somebody to hit me without it costing an arm and a leg. Prefer a small number to a large class means I get to train also. Teaching a large class is not the most efficient use of my training time. No interest in competitions either.
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Post by fleur on Dec 8, 2011 1:14:43 GMT
Shodan - 100 1st Kyu - 80 2nd kyu- 70 3rd kyu - 60 4th kyu - 50 5th kyu - 40 6th kyu - 30
Juniors up to 13yrs are a flat fee of $20
On seminars or any other cost associated with grading.
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Post by bryan on Dec 8, 2011 10:48:56 GMT
I was asked to take Yondan @ 20 yrs ago by my Japan based organisation. £400 for the grading, £80 to register the grade in Tokyo, £100ish for new belt, £60 for two day course plus two other mandatory courses in te 6 months prior to grading, plus cost of gaining grading examiners licence £can't remember, but thing several £100.
At the time I wasn't working so couldn't afford it and had to decline. Was told at the time, that despite travelling the country for the organisation and teaching at their dojos, that I wasn't commited enough. So threw the towel in and left. After a similar, but worse experience with another Japanese based group, I left and never went back to one.
We charge £18 for Kyu gradings and £65 for Dan grades. Both include course, certificate and belt (embroidered silk for Dan grades)
There are some minimum standards I expect for Dan grade candidates. But they are always given 2-4 individual challenges that I want them to undertake, usually a mix for practical and theory/principle based.
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Post by kensei on Dec 8, 2011 13:13:35 GMT
Wait, you guys change belts with each grade???
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