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Post by fleur on May 31, 2011 2:16:37 GMT
I'm curious - I've watched a couple of different schools now do gradings and I've watched bits of gradings on youtube too. But I'd be interested in knowing how your system works and what your expectations of your students are.
Have your students already passed before the grading starts? In otherwords - you wouldn't have put them forth to grade unless their ability was already at a point where they should be wearing the next belt, so the grading is really just a formality. Or is it really tested on the performance of the grading?
Do you determine if they pass based on technical detail, physical endurance, ability in sparring (and if so - at what level is this observed as a part of the grading). And to what degree of difficulty are they expected perform - Do you expect them to perform over and above what they do within a normal class? Do you expect them to take knocks harder than what they have come to know as the norm within the weekly training at the dojo?
Do you or have you seen students subjected to 'an attitude adjustment' in the sparring section of their grading?
And what is your norm when sparring? - Is the senior grade allowed to hit the student with reasonable force, yet the student is not allowed to hit back with the same force? And does every hit require a verbal acknowledgement? And if the answer is yes to either of these questions. What is your response to the student that fails to preform within these expected practises.
I've watched a few, what I would call questionable practises, but hey I'm new to the game. Maybe this is the norm - that's why I'm asking.
Honest feedback greatly appreciated.
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Post by Paul Bedard on May 31, 2011 5:08:28 GMT
Hi Fleur; good questions here. Kind of hard to answer all, as in a way there is no cut & dried response to some of your inquiries. Here is an attempt at explaining my take on this. No, yes, yes no. Well it`s not that easy. No they haven`t passed before grading starts, however, they can have already received credits in their favour. Good, attendance, trying hard, good example etc.. In a seminar prior to testing, if points are made & a progression of understanding is evident. However, totally blowing a kata is a fail for example. We still use the three k`s to measure ability & performance. If someone is borderline we use the afformentioned to consider results. We also use a full pass or a `B`, so if they have improved from the last grading but not quite up to expectations for the next level, they may be awarded a `B`. However, if you have a `B` at Ikkyu you must get rid of the `B` before dan level. Also no `B` in the dan level. Of course technical level, this progresses as the rank goes up. Endurance, well if they run out of gas & become sloppy, maybe a `B` or fail. Sparring, ineffective technique will certainly cause demerits, as will problems with distance. Over & above not necessarily, however a good effort is a must. `Spirit first technique second`. Hard knocks, again not necessarily, however if they receive a little rough play, I don`t expect them to make a big deal out of it. This is up to the examiners & sensei to deal with. I have seen people who make a big deal of getting hit fail. I agree with this as long as it is not an injury. Just because you got tagged doesn`t stop a fight, neither should it stop kumite. In real life a wimp who makes a big deal of getting hit, just might get killed. You keep fighting. ( I know I`m a hard ass ) Harder than normal training, at times. Normal training doesn`t have the adrenaline factor that grading or tournament have. That is why we use a referee or the examiner should seperate the students & remind them of control. Attitude adjustment? Have seen when one is seemingly too rough with their fellow examinee, have a new sparing partner who wont lose. Hitting back; you give what you get, hell I suggest turning it up a notch. The only one that I`m not hitting back as hard as he is trying to hit me is `sensei`. A senior student; well I might lose, but you will know where you have been. When you know you are hitting `kiai`. Being hit, there again don`t make a big deal of it unless it caused an injury. The referee or examiner should see when things get to rough. Having said this, if one side is being obviously overpowered, this should not be allowed to continue. The week student might not be sucessful, or the stronger might be held back due to lack of control. There are no cut & dried answers. Please drill me if this doesn`t make sense, or if you want more clarity. Also let me say that this is my opininon & not necessarily the exact way that our org & or examiners would perform. Osu Paul B
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Post by fujicolt on May 31, 2011 18:25:59 GMT
Many Years ago I changed the grading syllabus for our group in that we introduced closequarter kumite, a much wider array of shotokan techniques and a broad syllabus rather than a pre known set of combinations, Kata and Kumite for all grades straight from the begining. it is obviously simpler for the lower grades and gets more difficult as they advance but always NO SET SYLLABUS> It has been no prblem for them because it is all they have known. We ask club instructors not to enter people simply because the required time has elapsed. Do so because they are ready to grade. we have Mon Gradings for the under 16's - It all works very well and the students know they have passed a grading Exam rather than memorised a written list.
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Post by kensei on Jun 1, 2011 12:10:17 GMT
Our sylabus is basically JKA after 1st Kyu testing and teh same sylabus we have been using roughly before that as well.
Kata according to rank,
Kumite according to rank ( 3,5,1, semi free and free depending on rank)
and Kihon according to rank.
Sensei Dingman lives by the thought that his testing starts when he begins the seminars. The testing is very basic to see how people are progressing with the details, but the seminars are often very dynamic and difficult. He watches to see who is testing and who is having issues in seminars.
The system works well for him, dont know how popular it would be for everyone.
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Post by fujicolt on Jun 1, 2011 14:41:04 GMT
James - I think you will find that he is far from unique. I and most longterm examiners I know will announce at the start of a course, (even a week long or weekend course) that has a grading at the end =
'Your Grading starts now!'
This allows one to really asses the students thoroughly and the 'exam' itself is a detailed examination of them performing under pressure.
In our group ALL gradings above 1st Kyu must be taken at a specific course of at least two days or 4 hrs previous training.
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Post by kensei on Jun 1, 2011 23:29:00 GMT
FANTASTIC, I was scared he was the only one that did this. I can not tell you the number of times I have seen a "testing" instructor give a one hour class, do a kyu test...then look at the instructor and say "Yah, what ever you think"....like why bother having them out. The only other instructors that I have seen that put the time in would be Saeki Sensei from Ottawa who asked questions and asked before the first class 'who is testing"....then he watched them like a hawk!
Awesome that you do that as well.
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Post by fujicolt on Jun 1, 2011 23:50:43 GMT
Thank you for the kind comments James - but i am far from being able to claim it is unique here in the UK.
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Post by kensei on Jun 3, 2011 14:07:24 GMT
In the states, when I have visited clubs often the testing day is the first last and only day that the instructor sees the students. Not only that but I have seen masters doing tests and they seemed more interested in the peeling paint on the walls or seeing how far back they can put their heads and NOT watch a test. I think it is disrespectfull to test a student and not give them 100% of your attention.
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Post by fujicolt on Jun 3, 2011 22:45:32 GMT
Absolutely - Some exams are like a frickin conveyor belt! Good Grief!
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Post by kensei on Jun 3, 2011 23:57:08 GMT
got to agree with that. If you earn a belt from Me and Dingman Sensei you bloody well deserve it. that and he gave me a 2 hour test for my shodan...could not walk right for a week...feet were so darn sore from working out on frosty hard wood floors! My later tests were MUCH MUCH nicer!
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Post by fujicolt on Jun 4, 2011 18:47:11 GMT
memories heh? most karateka now would think of us as being MAD back then - but twas the norm - and yes somethings wrong but I wish a lot of it would return!
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Post by Bob Davis on Jun 4, 2011 20:13:19 GMT
We run a fairly conventional syllabus based grading set up for kyu grades (it's a lot more fluid when you get to shodan and above). I'd say the general run of things these days in our it seems that if a kyu grade puts in for grading they pass (can't remember the last time I saw a fail). Because of this my kyu grades don't get put forward by me unless I think they are ready (some of them wait a very long time). On the plus side, they all get everybody's full attention through the grading process.
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Post by Bob Davis on Jun 4, 2011 20:27:14 GMT
It occured to me the other day in a quiet moment that if you look past the veneer that every serious karate-ka that I know is a total nut job! There is very little sane or rational about what we do or how the harder it gets the more we enjoy it. My Shodan grading was 3 hours of right on the raggedy edge effort (and I was in a lot better shape back then), I could scarcely string together a coherent sentence at the end which is good because at that stage I then had a half hour interview with the grading panel (and likewise, I couldn't walk normally for a week afterwards , . Just to confirm the "nut job" status I got told off in dojo a week before the grading for trying to do one arm press ups (it being too painfull to do them on two arms due to the 2 cracked ribs I had on the other side ). It's not just an old guy thing either, the boy took his shodan about 6 months after me single handed having busted his hand in the pre-grading training (madness!). This wasn't that long ago but I still look at the current crop and think they have it far too easy. I guess the "good old days" are really relative to where you came from, (I doubt I'd have lasted 5 minutes back in the day )
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Post by stevie on Jun 5, 2011 22:13:43 GMT
after leaving the last club i was with (an ex-mate of mine who started up a little independent club not affiliated to any association which i left after i became disillusioned with when i saw a 9year old boy presented with a 4Th kyu grade who couldn't do heian shodan) although being graded to shodan some time before committing fully to Aberdeen kenshinkan karate club i asked to be retested as i felt i didn't deserve the belt i wore i had even offered not to ware it when training (to which i was told to wise up by our own DOD Watt) i then had another grading over a whole weekend plus an extra hour or so on the Monday all taken by Steve Hyland,and i can tell you this myself and DOD both knew we had been through the mill,and i think this was much better than a preset test by someone who only visits for a couple of hours a year.
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