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Post by Ernst on Jun 18, 2011 5:56:30 GMT
Do you guys experience a significant drop-out of your young members when they reach a certain age? At our club there are tendencies that karate gets "less exciting" when they go from the childrens classes,around 15-16 yrs old over to the adult classes. We have had some signals that they don´t think it is as fun as it used to be, it is too much focus on single techniques and basics, the instructors are more strict and not as "easy going" in classes as they used to be. Of course it is much more play and fun in classes for children, but how do you make the transition to "real", adult karate? Can we do something different in earlier years to lead them towards what is coming in later classes, when they grow up? Or is it the general trend in modern society, that youngsters drift off in that age to new experiences, chasing boys/girls, hanging out etc? Maybe it is just a natural thing, this drop-out issue that we should not pay to much attention to? What are your experiences, guys?
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Post by kensei on Jun 18, 2011 14:45:31 GMT
Ernst,
It may not be your childrens class at all. Remember as youth they have different choices that are more laid back, fun and it is natural for them to jump at that.
We are also competing with MMA classes, TKD, and a myriad of other martial arts that have moved to be more modern. Plus you add in all the negative campaigns that the other clubs and styles have thrown at us and we are viewed as military-ish, no fun, to strict and unrealistic in our approach to self defense.
What you should look at is moving away from classes filled with one technique at a time, more combination drills, some impact training with kick pads and try to spice it up for all the adults. You will get a stronger youth element if you do so and you will find their skills improve drastically.
instead of changing a childrens class that appears to work, add a youth class that introduces some structure but also works on the things that will make it more fun, that way you have a balance.
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Post by nathanso on Jun 19, 2011 6:00:19 GMT
it is too much focus on single techniques and basics Maybe it is your adult classes that are the problem. Single techniques and basics would drive me away if that is all that was done. Are there combinations, sparring drills, distancing drills, timing drills, different types of sparring, kata applications, etc.?
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Post by Ernst on Jun 19, 2011 12:52:11 GMT
I think we have a good mix of the 3 K´s, pad/makiwara work, timing drills, sparring and applications and so on. I don´t think thats the problem, as we also have various instructors with different approaches towards teaching shotokan. But we certainly have to look into it, because it is frustrating to lose members if our sessions are the problem. Our youth instructor is a really popular teacher, with tons of knowledge, great classes and has great personal skills with the children. Maybe, when they come over to the adults, we can´t manage to match this. Could it be that the "bond" between them is so strong, that other instructors in the club are kind of intimidating, the youth are out of their comfort zone, and therefore rather quit than continue? If children have had the same instructor over several years and suddenly have to relate to another one, maybe thats the issue? Not only our grown-ups class approach.. Happy for the inputs from you guys so far, great
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Post by fujicolt on Jun 19, 2011 21:18:22 GMT
tis simple ernst -
as they approach the change over date, for six months, have them come up for a class once every 2 weeks and after the class debrief them. get to know what they feel about it and get them to know you recognise it is a transition and you care enough to give them help and attention to smoothen the process!
with this info you will learn and also you will be able to explain why the senior class is structured the way it is.
Very important = tell them everyone is afraid at first but Karate is massively about facing your fears and overcoming them. make sure they know you are all there to help but you won't carry them they have to put effort in both physically and emotionally. after that if they won't stay tis about them and not about your club. don't dilute it to keep members it is a martial art and shouldn't be easy!
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Post by jimlukelkc on Jun 19, 2011 22:30:14 GMT
We also have to recognise there are a lot of outside pressures on kids, from homework to exams and just sitting at home on the playstation ( which is easier than sweating your nads off for 2 hours). Also karate is not seen as cool these days and can actually lead to kids being bullied or marginalised. These days it is not enough to stand in front of the class and bark orders in pseudo -Japanese. We have to engage and explain, kids can get instant entertainment and gratification, why should they put any effort in? Most of them cant be bothered to read a book! It is a constant challenge but brilliantly rewarding when it pays off.
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Post by nathanso on Jun 20, 2011 6:56:34 GMT
I don't know how things are in Norway, but in the U.S., a lot of kids drop out of karate when they make school transitions- elementary to middle school, middle to high school, and high school to college. If a kid started at 5 (or even at 10), by the time they hit high school, they frequently view karate as something that they did when they " were a kid", and are ready to move on. Also, kids who are really athletic and are into competitive sports that their peers actually care about usually have dramatically increased time demands for those sports at the high school level.
Personally, I think that the influx of small kids into karate has led to the perception on the part of many that it is something that, like ballet, gymnastics, music lessons, etc., it is something that kids do while they are really young to fill the time until they are mature enough to pick something on their own.
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Post by Paul Bedard on Jun 25, 2011 4:50:49 GMT
This is one of the reasons that I stopped doing a kids class. Young kids for the most part don`t dedicate themselves to any one thing, they get bored easy & are more suited to seasonal activities where they get to change what it is that they are doing. We run our dojo from September through June & by the time June rolls around some of the kids have had enough for the year & end their season early. Then we ask them to keep training after they have done karate for a few years, I don`t think that this is natural for kids. They need to keep trying new things. however there is an exception to any rule. I don`t think that you will find many adult karateka, who have trained since they were 6 years old. Of course there are some but not very many... I know that I`m going to take flack for this one. However it is my opinion that Dojo`s train kids because they need the numbers for the monthly payments to pay the overhead. In my case it has been a waste of time, just when they start to get good, they quit.. Osu Paul B
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Post by jimlukelkc on Jun 25, 2011 10:11:51 GMT
I know that I`m going to take flack for this one. However it is my opinion that Dojo`s train kids because they need the numbers for the monthly payments to pay the overhead. In my case it has been a waste of time, just when they start to get good, they quit.. Osu Paul B [/quote]
Paul I can see no reason why you would get flack. I will freely admit my kids classes pay for hall fees and enable me to conduct a less well attended adult class. Also in many cases kids will quit, as you say, just as they get good. However the reason I keep on keeping on with kids classes is the benefit I see to them ( and as reported by their parents) and the fact that every now and again you get a gem! I am lucky enough to have two of them. its not a wasted effort, just a different emphasis. I can definitely see where it can get disheartening though.
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Post by Paul Bedard on Jun 26, 2011 5:20:00 GMT
I do have to agree with Jim that it is rewarding when you get positive feedback from parents & also school teachers about some of the kids in karate. I do still take kids at the age of 10 & up, however not in a separate kids class. We are a class that ranges from 10 - 80 years of age, yes I do have one student who is very close to 80 years young. If the kids behave & try to keep up then of course they are welcome. I use the strike three method. I`ll try three times to help you & if you don`t seem to be trying I wont waste anymore time trying to help you in that session. It could very well be that my charming personality makes it hard for me to work with the kids that are younger. When I had a full time dojo, we did a kids class, like others I needed the membership to pay expenses. However at this stage of my life, I just couldn`t go back to doing that. We offer three 1 & 1/2 hr classes a week, combine that with three masters seminars annually & of course camps for the more dedicated, not to mention sometimes one on one personal training for seniors, there is only so much that one can do. My dojo is quite small & just now have a senior who can take the odd class when I`m not available. In a larger dojo where other seniors want to get instructional experience a kids class can be a good way for them to get started. However expect a large turn-over. Now that I think of it, we get that in almost all ages. Get 5 new students & you might still have 2 of them in 2 years. Oops, I think I`m babbling Osu Paul B
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Post by fujicolt on Jun 26, 2011 18:10:59 GMT
as usual mate but interesting babble!
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Post by genkaimade on Jun 27, 2011 12:43:47 GMT
I haven't read the vast majority of the above, but I think I'm fairly well qualified to answer this fairly out-rightly.
The very simple answer to the question, is because they probably didn't start karate entirely of their own free will/know what they were getting into. I, for example, ended up signed up for karate classes at the age of 9 because when my mum took me to sign up for football, they told me all the places had already been taken. For the first 1.5-2 years of karate there, I was honestly so lazy it's not even funny. Although I'm sometimes annoyed that my parents stopped all my extracurricular stuff (karate included) when I got to 11 and replaced it with preparation for grammar school entrance exams, thinking about it, it was probably the best thing that ever happened to my karate. The years that I had off built up this pit inside of me that karate should have filled; so when I finally got back to training, it was what I wanted, and I knew what karate had given me/was going to give me. There was no pressure from parents, friends also doing it, or anything. I was there because I wanted to be, and that was/is my driving force. Kids that carry on training from a young age simply because it's become routine/their parents want them there, simply won't have any kind of inspiration to keep going, so when an opportunity presents itself for them to not be bothered, they'll probably stop training.
That's basically my spin on things, Alex
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Post by fujicolt on Jun 27, 2011 13:52:37 GMT
For new members who dont know Alex - He is a long time member - one of the first and has been away doing exams. he is the young intellectual amongst us. Welcome back yungun!
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