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Post by jimlukelkc on Jan 28, 2012 19:18:42 GMT
aA thread elsewhere on this forum skims over the "23 habitual acts of violence" ( which you can google for the full list). Do any of you use these routinely as part of your kata bunkai? They deserve more than a cursory look as they would appear to be reflexive and as such would be exactly the kind of threat the principles of kata would refer to, ( if you view kata as being relevant and trained as a civilian self-protection system)
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Post by fujicolt on Jan 30, 2012 12:05:40 GMT
I have been using such info (both from research and personal experience for 35+ yrs - they do occur with considerable consistency As I know you have a similar attitude to I in regard to Karate being a 'Martial' Art I suspect that you have also. I don't limit it to Kata Bunkai though and devise many Yakusoku Kumite Drills for students to become familiar with this stuff. Interestingly at Rod DeSilva's Dojo last week we worked on dealing with the very common 'Swinging Punch to the Head' and Lo and Behold whilst travelling through Central Croydon several hours later we witnessed a scrap outside of a NightClub. There they were deploying 'Swinging punches to the Head' and not one of them knew what to do with them. Several went down! If I had some advertising Laeflets for Rod's Club I'd have stopped the car and gone over and handed them out LMAO! ;D ;D
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Post by malk103 on Jan 30, 2012 14:10:24 GMT
It makes sense to train in techniques that you are likely to experience in every day life, i've just read a bit about Patrick McCarthy and his link between Kata and the HAOV.
On Friday I mentioned during Kumite that my sparring partner should step out more as most punches are likely to be a swinging right hook and if he didn't step out enough it would still catch him.
What to read or where can we go to learn more on this subject? Google has found a lot but would rather work with recommendations as there is also a lot of rubbish on the web.
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Post by fujicolt on Jan 30, 2012 17:09:14 GMT
OSS's very own Shotokan Karate Friendship Courses - we cover a lot of relevant stuff - All Welcome!
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Post by malk103 on Jan 30, 2012 18:32:24 GMT
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Post by jimlukelkc on Jan 30, 2012 19:36:42 GMT
Nice to see like minded people more or less agreeing! Do not know about stepping back though Mal, the closer the better! never fight him at his distance.
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Post by malk103 on Jan 30, 2012 21:18:44 GMT
"On Friday I mentioned during Kumite that my sparring partner should step out more as most punches are likely to be a swinging right hook and if he didn't step out enough it would still catch him."Sorry - didn't explain it very well, the attacker was punching Oi Zuki Jodan RH, the defender was stepping to the side (to their left and forwards) the aim was to grab the attacker by the scruff (or neck area) and kick the back of the knee - bringing them to the ground. As my partner at the time wasn't stepping out far enough I was trying to explain to him that a "street" swinging punch would still have got him, he needed to avoid it and get behind the attackers right shoulder. This almost makes it sound like I know what I was doing..... It just seemed an obvious observation during the act.
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Post by fujicolt on Jan 30, 2012 23:35:31 GMT
sorry Mal now more confused - the attacker making RH Jodan OiTsuki and the defender stapping to left forward - well OK as long as his timing spot on and line was close and just avoiding incoming straight punch to gain tactical advantage - wide stepout too slow and telegraphed = attacker will change tack and simply abandon or follow but why step Left forward into a RH swinging punch - you mention no blocks, parries, etc etc so really stepping straight into the Flight path of attack so why? a huge number of possibilities for this common attack (which NEVER looks like RH Jodan OI Tsuki (cos it isn't) but your explanation doesn't make sense in various ways including taking knee out AM sure tis just what i have oft expressed that it is VERY HARD to describe physical motion etc via written word. Oh and the Friendship Course will be on the date the regulars tell me is most convenient for them and the book will be out when i decide I am happy with the publishers services and terms. I hope that is satisfactory for you. The invite to the friendship course is of course still open
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Post by malk103 on Jan 31, 2012 9:33:40 GMT
I missed the Soto Uke out but think the idea was to give us an application should you find yourself in that position - taking them down by pulling back on their neck/head/shoulder and pushing on the back of their knee. It was more about the take down than the Oi zuki. Just one of many we practice to help with co-ordination, distance etc.
Sorry if I'm not explaining it very well.....
Looking forwards to hopefully getting on the course and the book!
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Post by Gaz Lee on Feb 1, 2012 17:38:07 GMT
hmm, if facing an opponents right handed hook, and if like me your prob smaller than him, it wouldnt be a good idea to duck or move to your right, as the punce could easily be guided that way, if you moved to the left you could still get clipped, the best way round it i can see is either to move stright in and hit him first, (nice close empi if poss) or move back and let him hopefully miss leaving him slightly unblalnced and unpreparedfor the kick or gyaki zuki reply, bit i do like the idea of taking the leg out one way or another, as i think most thugs who start fights would never consider protecting their legs or balance as theyre usually trying to take your head off. a goof kick to the knee would certainly get them wobbly and confused, allowing you to hopefully walk away!
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Post by fujicolt on Feb 2, 2012 23:35:21 GMT
I missed the Soto Uke out but think the idea was to give us an application should you find yourself in that position - taking them down by pulling back on their neck/head/shoulder and pushing on the back of their knee. It was more about the take down than the Oi zuki. Just one of many we practice to help with co-ordination, distance etc. Sorry if I'm not explaining it very well..... Looking forwards to hopefully getting on the course and the book! thanks 4 the clarification Mal - tis blinking hard work trying to explain physical movement in a short post is it not. Thanks for taking the time to reply
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Post by jimlukelkc on Feb 15, 2012 12:08:16 GMT
This thread has wandered a bit from my original point but not in a bad way lol. What I was clumsily trying to say was can any of you see principles in kata to deal with HAOV? or instance the regular inclusion of tate-shuto as a datum point or a head grab? this is often a response in a brawl where one protagonist grabs the others head before punching, head butting etc as a way of gaining control. Can you see any others?
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Post by tomobrien on Feb 16, 2012 2:53:48 GMT
Do defences against these attacks all the time. Keep em simple direct & with bad intent. Thanks, Tom
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