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Post by malk103 on Sept 15, 2012 22:43:35 GMT
Do you find that a few people stop training after getting their Black Belts?
Or even change to something else?
When I was around Purple belt the club had a few that stopped and now we have had 3 new BB's, 2 of them have just stopped coming?
I couldn't wait to show off a bit but also help out as much as possible with the club and also help others along their way. I'm hoping its just people having a break or busy.
Anyone else find this?
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Post by nathanso on Sept 16, 2012 5:44:48 GMT
Yes, there are people that do that.
To be honest, I think that it is fine. If someone's goal is to get a BB, then they've achieved thir goal, and they might think it is time to move on. Maybe they would stay if their club had a different emphasis or diffferent style of teaching, maybe not. The old cliche that "karate is for life" is incomplete IMO. It is for the life of someone's interest in it
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Post by dek1 on Sept 16, 2012 8:37:56 GMT
We have lost a few BB's over the past few years most were going to uni and havent come back others have got their belts and train sporadicaly at best. We have a regular 6 train every week and have two classes per week at 1stkyu/BB level
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Post by kensei on Sept 16, 2012 13:06:12 GMT
The problem is we make the "Black belt" the goal for training in most cases. I have seen students say things like "Man I just want to get my purple belt, if I can do that then I have reached the level I want" or brown...but normally its black belt.
The problem with this is that they get a goal in their head and then leave when they reach it because what else is their??
As a group we need to show them that you dont "Get a black belt" you become one...and if you stop training, your efforts go in the waste bin!
the goals should be to train for the rest of your life for health and enjoyment and to find a place to train with like minded people...and to learn! You are never to far up the ladder to learn!
Get rid of the "Goal of black belt" and really focus on the training. We used to focus on "Black belt" but now we say "Shodan...first step" and work towards learning more. It helps with most people to realize that its only the first step that they are taking!
The key to retention in my mind is to de-emphasize the black belt and make it the Dan level vs Kyu level...you get your Shodan and you are ready to really start studying as opposed to just learning as a kyu.
So, Kyu levels we feed info to and train them to help them learn, we act as school teachers to Elementary, junior high and high school level students (regardless of age) and when they get a Shodan they are like university students..now they study more on their own.
and perhaps even become professors themselves some day with classes of their own, but the studies...they never end.
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Post by malk103 on Sept 16, 2012 15:20:37 GMT
you dont "Get a black belt" you become one
That's an excellent way of looking at it - I may steal it for our website. ;D
I'm wondering if some see it as an anti-climax and there aren't any obvious goals to aim for, maybe some see it as completing the "course" and that is all there is to Karate?
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Post by Bob Davis on Sept 16, 2012 15:54:36 GMT
I think everybody has their own goals and aims of what they want to get out of karate. When I started back to regular training I'd set myself the goal of getting to Sandan by the age of 50, didn't actually make it until 53 and even then only did it because I was told, (by that stage it didn't really matter that much  ) I think those that leave straight after Shodan make a big mistake (the first year after I took mine was one of the most productive I had as all grading pressure was off and I could start to relax into "my own" karate) but often they don't know any better. Sadly in many cases that is true BUT this is often not the fault of the student, the way karate is taught in many places we don't actually offer them anything after Shodan other than "more of the same". It's the old cliche of the blackbelt of 20 years training who's actually has 1 years training repeated 20 times. I have seen (an experienced) this first hand. |
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Post by malk103 on Oct 12, 2012 20:48:11 GMT
Thought I would update this - one came back who was busy with work and is now training regularly again and going from strength to strength! The other one has stayed away but will hopefully return one day.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2012 20:06:55 GMT
Always disappointed when a recent black belt stops training. I can remember when I got my BB, I was both chuffed to get it but felt it was a bit of an anti climax for the next couple of months. Stuck with it and broke through the feeling. Realised that it was just another belt and meant It just meant I was a serious karate student and had lots more to learn and perfect.
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Post by malk103 on Oct 15, 2012 20:30:51 GMT
Very true, I felt as though I was crossing the finishing line only to realise it was the proper starting line... ;D
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Post by nathanso on Oct 16, 2012 6:13:42 GMT
I think that while most upper belts say that belts and rank are not important, few would actually want to switch to a system where there are no ranks.
As Bob said, people start karate for different reasons and with different goals. I think people should constantly be evaluating what their goals are, and if karate no longer floats their boat, whether they are gokyu, shodan, or godan, it's time to bail and move on.
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Post by Rob S on Oct 16, 2012 7:10:11 GMT
As a group we need to show them that you dont "Get a black belt" you become one...and if you stop training, your efforts go in the waste bin! Get rid of the "Goal of black belt" and really focus on the training. We used to focus on "Black belt" but now we say "Shodan...first step" and work towards learning more. It helps with most people to realize that its only the first step that they are taking! The key to retention in my mind is to de-emphasize the black belt and make it the Dan level vs Kyu level...you get your Shodan and you are ready to really start studying as opposed to just learning as a kyu. IMO instructors need to emphasise that shodan is the beginning. Up and til then we have been giving our students a few basic and necessary tools to put in the tool box that is karate. So the tools are simple tools, they are basic tools. The study thereafter enhances the performance of some of those tools, and adds new tools to the box, often tools that are similar to but much better than the original tool. Mk2, Mk3, Mk4 versions etc (to use British car examples). If we make a black belt as something special, we are setting the student up for a fall, and setting them up to feel deflated when they have achieved the 'pinnacle' and have no further goal to achieve. It is often, IMO, down to the instructor. Black belts sometimes get treated differently and are seen to be in a special position; yet it is just a Shodan. I have seen dojos where every back belt get bowed to by every student. I guess the student wants to get a BB so he doesn't have to bow to all the big shots but get bowed to himself! What makes it all so sad is the price people pay to achieve a Japanese registered belt. (And I am one of the gullible ones!). For example in the association I belonged to until recent years, it cost 200 USA to take the test, and 200USA for the diploma. Then of course to 'fit in' a Hirota or similar belt was purchased. Another 150USA. So the Black Belt cost the student (or parents) 550 USA as a minimum, not to count the cost of training fees over the years, and the seminar fee they had to take before that Shodan or any Dan test. That could cost 100USA. So a Shodan equalled a shelling out of some 650USA at a minimum! Then the person quits!!!!!!!! What does that say? It says that people are willing to pay for achievement of a goal. Perhaps they realise that in that group the second dan would cost another 100USA (so 750 USA) and so on and so on! Perhaps that is why people stopped at Shodan, they saw the truth! How expensive it could be. My grading cost, 2000USA to fly to Japan, 1200 USA for the test and diploma, and then another 1500 for other certifications. That was painful! More painful is that when I moved associations, I had to re-qualify. More interestingly, it cost another 1400USA for the diploma. Back to the issue at hand. Why do people leave at Shodan? Perhaps this is the fault of having 'set a goal'. The psychology of setting and achieving a goal has been completed. They have achieved! Do the students then decide to set a whole new regime into place for achieving the next goal, or does it look like too long a road? Interesting question. Of course some of us on these boards have gone past that barrier. Have climbed the hill and come out the other side. Perhaps we are still here, because we are too bloody minded to give up after losing our own blood, sweat and tears, or money! Or perhaps it is that we have become addicted to the drug known as karate or Budo itself! |
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Post by kensei on Oct 16, 2012 12:47:11 GMT
three things come to mind when I think of those that stop training.... First the student that has put aside so much to train for Karate. they dont have a life really outside of Karate and once they get the coveted Kuro Obi they realize they have or want a family and their work has been just kind of an aside....we lose them to other things like jobs, family, school ext. They may or may not come back and when they do...often almost as sharp as before but a bit of time to sharpen up to the level they once were. And they really do enjoy Karate... One of my juniors just came back after a rather lengthy lay off. Super nice guy and he seems to be fitting into the swing of things again. The second are the BIG HEAD issues that stop some from training. they get to the black belt and they feel its now a right of theirs to BE THE BLACK BELT. once they realize they are exactly who they were the day before...they leave! The ego almost can not take that they are not the best of the best now and the black belt means they are a GOD! The rest of us who have had one for years realize that its only a strip of cotton holding your Gi closed and you really have to work your brain now! They think the hard work is over, but once they "get" that its just started...they leave because they feel to good for it or they dont understand how that works that they bust their hump physically and now its a mental game. The last are the true trophy collectors. I know of one guy that did Karate for four years, hard work outs and finally got his black belt on the fifth year of training. He was physically gifted but you could see he wanted the black belt for his trophy case and nothing else. After he got his black belt in Karate he moved on over night to train in Judo....and once he got his black belt in Judo he moved on to Aikido and I lost contact with him after that. The sad thing is that once he earned a Shodan he seemed to forget everything he learned and moved on to the next test. None of these are great ideals in Karate. the only one I understand is the one were family and work come first. Other than this the goal of Karate is to train, not to find a destination to get off the train! |
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Post by malk103 on Oct 26, 2012 20:33:24 GMT
YAY!
The other one has come back, he's had a bad back which is why he's been away. ;D
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