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Post by fujicolt on Jun 6, 2012 21:40:42 GMT
Well - I refer you to the content of my post above and offer no apology - unless that is I haven't made my points clear and need to clarify something and thus would apologise - for that ;D and on the current subject of 'no first attack' I consider the threat of a Ladies Darts Team to be imminent Danger so I am sending in the equivalent of the SAS = the Domino Team from the Albert Pub at home - bring it on Big Fella LMAO!  ;D ;D   |
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Post by th0mas on Jun 8, 2012 10:24:18 GMT
Very good point and very true. I would suggest that rather than being another category, in-fact it is more a principle that underpins all the others (whether accepted by a particular individual karateka or not). Constant change is something any Shotokan Karatetaka who has been around for any length of time would recognise (although may not necessarily accept or like).
Having accepted that change is the only constant, the debate can move on. It becomes more about the direction we see Shotokan development taking and who decides how wide the boundaries are through which that path will follow.
Lets hope the boundaries do not get too narrow.
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Post by th0mas on Jun 8, 2012 18:53:03 GMT
Wow...I'm in danger of disappearing up my own backside.  |
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Post by fujicolt on Jun 8, 2012 21:52:21 GMT
Wow...I'm in danger of disappearing up my own backside. No Tom - that boundary would be too narrow.... Shotokan, if following sensible justified expansion with no Boundaries cAN keep evolving and become immensely better than the fine MA it already is! IMHO! |
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Post by jimlukelkc on Jun 9, 2012 10:36:57 GMT
I will see your domino team and raise you the ladies pool team ! They have been known to do terrible things to a man with a cue and a chalked tip !
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Post by fujicolt on Jun 10, 2012 1:25:29 GMT
Well that's this thread toasted then but bring it on Buddy - I haven't even mentioned the Amateur Rugby Laegaue team yet |
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Post by jimlukelkc on Jun 10, 2012 10:41:05 GMT
Right! Your challenge is accepted! It is time to unleash our secret weapon, The Easington Lane ninja morris dancers ! Tales are legendary of the dreadful things they can do armed only with a bell and handkerchief! Be warned Mr Hyland ! You dont find them, they find you ! Just dont stroll across any village greens in the near future!.
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Post by nathanso on Jun 16, 2012 0:47:56 GMT
FWIW, here is a brief report of a KUGB instructor's impressions of a visit/training with Andre. |
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Post by Rob S on Jun 16, 2012 13:54:34 GMT
I fail to see why Andre is the subject of threads, conversations etc. He is a simple karate-ka, with a simple motive, to become the best he can be. His blog says it all. He is not the best, does not claim to be the best, and only wishes to train to try and become one of the best.
It seems he does not suffer people who do not wear a gi, and sweat it out. That is his right.
There may be some sort of private debate over Asai-ha, in various avenues, but from my limited personal experience of him - in Tokyo - a few years ago, he trained, trained again. Accepted criticism, sought critique, and applied it.
I struggle to see why people make him the subject of such debate.
What does Neil Jerome who visited AB say?
" training with different instructors is always a useful exercise, but moreso when the instructors are as accomplished as sensei bertel. in person, sensei bertel was very friendly, and went out of his way to make me welcome. easy-going in nature, his dedication in the study of karate is exemplary, and his expertise undeniable."
What more do we want from a karate-ka?
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Post by fujicolt on Jun 16, 2012 23:08:24 GMT
With the utmost respect Rob - because you are posting, thinking etc from the info you have - but if you were fully aware of the kind of messages etc that Andre sends OFF-LINE to some - very unpleasant, very critical of Karateka he has never met, never trained with etc and very 'blanket' (everyone whom posts here - for example) YOU may not be so confused as to why people may wish to comment.
He is , of course, allowed is opinions but sometimes they just cannot be based on any facts and many here would love to have the opportunity to meet with him and discuss, show him that he shouldn't be so sure that he can send such damning criticisms, even OFF - Line, as he might well find some of us out here have 'done a bit' and he may well be a little out of his depth, in many ways - both physical and in understanding should he venture a visit.
He isn't the sincere chap you have come to believe him to be - sorry but true.
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Post by ruestir on Jun 17, 2012 2:41:23 GMT
I like to give people the benefit of the doubt too Rob. However, through my own personal interaction with Andre I have found him to be both helpful and vitriolic depending on if we were in agreement on some topic. During one discussion he dismissed me out of hand simply because I was from North Carolina and what could I possibly know about real budo karate(whatever that means to him). I'm quite certain Andre is a talented karateka, but I've also witnessed him being quite the judgmental, arrogant, jerk.
My point in telling you this is that my experience is not unique, and has nothing to do with organizational ties.
I wish the man no ill will, and for the most part am quite apathetic towards him, but he has made this bed of controversy that surrounds his name. Now, he'll be the one who deals with the consequences of it.
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Post by Allan Shepherd on Jun 17, 2012 9:13:30 GMT
Personally I have enjoyed the original interview AND the debate on the OSS forum along with other articles, videos and the brief emails off Andre Bertel some years ago. I personally do not have a problem as to how he conveys his views and understanding of Karate and the people who he has meet along the path.
This quote "You can please (fool) some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time but you can't please (fool) all of the people all of the time" applies to EVERY individual on this planet so please think and look at the latitude that we have afforded others and the same that has been afforded US since people who live in glass houses should not throw stones!
Best Regards
Allan
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Post by th0mas on Jun 17, 2012 10:27:45 GMT
Hi Allan Agreed about the glass houses, but it makes for very boring forums! Let's be less timid about things, the reasons behind why a person behaves in a certain way is always more complicated than it at first seems...I would rather have someone put out the're views and opinions and then accept a degree of debate and maybe some flaming... ...we all then learn from the experience |
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Post by kensei on Jun 18, 2012 12:13:32 GMT
Hey I am the first person to admit I can be a jerk, but only when reacting to a mega jerk!....or trying to get a response from Steve H. ;D The thing is that I have seen both faces of Andre as well. At one time he was very informative about Asai-Ha Karate and the inner workings of the style. A very nice fellow....but he also has a bit of a bite for no real reason...I tend to think its hormonal! Andre can be very helpfull and from what I have seen he is a very good Karate-ka, who would not be when you toss your whole life into it and dont really have a life much outside of it...not all of us can do such. However that aside, he is a great athlete who has athlete's tendencies to be very moody at times. I respect that he protects and honors his style of Karate and that he honors Asai Sensei Karate. the debate over how much of a student he was to Asai rolls on...while he and his supporters claim a close tie, people like Kagawa and Yahara tend to say "who"? when asked about him. I would be interested in what Sensei Amos has to say about him. Amous sensei spent a great deal of time with Asai in Japan and may know more on the subject. The thing is that Andre did host him several times, and for me that is good enough to show he had ties, but to what extent is up for debate until one of Asais senior students has their say. As for personal attacks "off line" been bit once or twice by "famous Karate people" and personally the likes of McCarthy and Bertel tend to hold fast to fame and the idea that they are more than they really are. Andre would do well to simply fade into being a good instructor and student and not seek the lime light as McCarthy did....whom I have the utmost in disrespect for..and damn it if he aint a Canadian too! Andre is not a horrible person or fraud, but time and fame may make him out to be more than he is. And his spats on the net, well like I said....Hormonal! |
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Post by fujicolt on Jun 20, 2012 15:27:43 GMT
SIMPLY PUT:
ANdre chose to, off - line, make some very damning remarks about all at the OSS Forum (including me!) and some personally.
I think I have made it clear that I believe Andre may find that he may well be 'quite a large Fish' in the very small pond he rose in but heyho - he has an Open Invite to come along and find out first hand if his rather damning oppinions - regarding the skill, ability, understanding of Karate etc (that he threw out there) stand up to some personal research.
I would love the opportunity to discuss it all with him in person and spend some time in a Dojo with him to explore his opinions (as would several others I have spoken to!). I am VERY confident he would have a major re-think of his oppinions (especially so if he visited the UK where many OSS Members, the OSS site Founders and officials reside) but heyho - tis up to him he knows where we all are.
AFter his re-education I am very confident that he may well have some valid points about his Karate ventures along the way that we all may find interesting to discuss over a friendly pint or a meal - but until he comes out of his little pond we'll never know?
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Post by Ernst on Jun 20, 2012 18:04:36 GMT
Speaking of, he has som rather unpleasant remarks today at his blog...it's just sad  |
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Post by malk103 on Jun 20, 2012 18:25:16 GMT
I was previously a bit miffed by the comment at the end of his video about us wasting our time but after reading the comments on the Blog then I am a bit dismayed...
If training in Asai style Karate makes you that rude and disrespectful then you can keep it. I wonder what Asai Sensei would think about his comments as I'm sure he never trained him to be that way.
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Post by Paul Bedard on Jun 20, 2012 21:36:04 GMT
Just checked out the blog. Kind of want to say something, but this blog is not worth anymore attention that it has already received.
However I do need to know; does this make Steve `Famous` or `Infamous` lol.
Osu
Paul B
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Post by kensei on Jun 20, 2012 21:48:08 GMT
Wow, another internet warrior pissing contest throw down...really not impressed...and I am sure that Asai Sensei would scold him for such behavior..and I dont just say that because I have come to know Steve. I am saying that because Asai was all about respect and the Dojo kun...shows how little Andre actually learned from Asai Sensei.
I am just saying its sad as hell!
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Post by malk103 on Jun 20, 2012 22:09:53 GMT
It wouldn't matter if you knew Steve or not - anyone who reads that from a supposedly senior Karateka should have no doubt about his attitude, humility and respect.
Hopefully the 1 million readers will vote with their mouses by clicking the X in the top right corner of his blog.
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Post by jimlukelkc on Jun 20, 2012 22:28:02 GMT
I have just read the blog in question and will only say that an attitude like that is undesirable in any walk of life let alone martial arts. His technical excellence may be unquestionable ( I do not know ) however he has much to learn about humility. He appears to suffer from the same arrogance that afflicts some sportsmen who believe their own hype. I was ashamed for him. It should be enough that we are happy with our own progress without feeling the need to crow about it or denigrate others to promote ourselves. He is a small man and unworthy of any further comment.
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Post by genkaimade on Jun 21, 2012 13:22:25 GMT
I have just read the blog in question and will only say that an attitude like that is undesirable in any walk of life let alone martial arts. His technical excellence may be unquestionable ( I do not know ) however he has much to learn about humility. He appears to suffer from the same arrogance that afflicts some sportsmen who believe their own hype. I was ashamed for him. It should be enough that we are happy with our own progress without feeling the need to crow about it or denigrate others to promote ourselves. He is a small man and unworthy of any further comment. ^Seconded. |
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Post by fujicolt on Jun 21, 2012 22:58:48 GMT
Cough, splutter, etc - this isn't about me folks! I have simply made my position on it all as clear as possible. THis is about Mr Bertel and his approach to things If you don't mind HAHA! I can get in enough trouble on my own thank you!  |
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Post by Paul Bedard on Jun 22, 2012 3:44:53 GMT
Ha; I knew it! `Infamous`... ;D ;D Osu Paul B |
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Post by kensei on Jun 22, 2012 13:07:18 GMT
Steve is right, this is not about him. it would not matter if he used ANY name or picture in that blog that had the same message. Now we all know Steve can be a right Ass of the highest order, but most of the time it in jest (as was this comment)! But to post his picture and the like on your blog, well thats just childish and shows that Andre is basically a Karate thug that never learned the Dojo Kun.
The only ill speaking of Andre that I have read from steve or anyone on this sight was to point out his behavior....not that Andre never actually said that Steve ever did anything to him, he gave a very low oppinion of steve and then ripped into him. Again, does not matter that it was steve, could have been Kagawa, Osaka, or some 1st Dan from Milwakee! Does not matter.
I really hope those associated with Andre are not blinded by his BS and his crap talk and side with him, but rather realize that "Steve" could be replaced with their name and picture if Andre ever decides he no longer fancies them.
I read the blog to my 72 year old instructor and asked him what he thought, a man that trained with Nakayama, Tanaka, Asai, and many of the greats (and who was Yaguchis head student in my city) and he just shook his head and said "that is a sad young man..." thats all he had to say.
I wonder if Andre ever stops and thinks about that which he is making very public and the back lash it could have on him. Dont care to meet him and could give a squirt of Piss who he THINKS he is and what he THINKS he reprosents. From here on out he is just the ignorant young man that talks to much....as opposed to me...who is the ignorant middle aged man that talks to much! ;D
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Post by th0mas on Jun 24, 2012 21:10:00 GMT
Wrong picture that's me!...  If he moved 2 to the left he would have got a picture of Steve... ;D |
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Post by th0mas on Jun 24, 2012 21:15:21 GMT
What makes me laugh is .. How would he know? I imagine all the years Andre worked the doors and dealt with aggression and violence on a day-to-day basis really improved his oi-zuki and Junro-shodan, not to mension his omnipresence. |
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Post by kensei on Jun 25, 2012 15:30:18 GMT
Andre and other paper tigers love to state "for the record" from miles and miles away. I have offered a few of them the chance to come up to Canada and "Dance" a bit, a respectfull Dojo sparring chance to put their money on the air fare and come and train and see what they preach and what they say does not always equate to real life. guys like Rob Redmond have challenged me and when I offered, with respect, to have them up and let them put their words on the line..they throw back that they would but they wont...or better yet ask me to come down and do the same. I have accepted once and been turned down...strange to me I think!
The fact is that Steve has worked his Karate in real world situations and should be listened to when it comes to real Karate practice for applying it in real world situations. guys like Rob can be listened to if you want to HATE Karate in three easy steps and guys like Andre can teach you technical Karate..but not how to use it. The fact that he is so disrespectful and honestly childish...well it shows me the caliber of human being he is!
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Post by stonesan on Jun 26, 2012 12:22:28 GMT
You are challenging Andre here, he is not challenging you. So if you want to challenge him, get the balls and go to him. He would love that. He is an interesting character and trains rather hard.
Respect to you but you talk about "challenges from miles and miles away". Get some balls if you are unhappy with your life.
Mr. James, I hope to see some of your kata and kumite online, and hope it impresses me. Andre's karate is absolutely mindblowing and just remember he has been a bodygaurd for some very high profile people including US rock stars whom have visited my dojo.
He is in constant demand all over the world. Every federation asks him, so I can see why you feel inferior and want to boost yourself. The best way is to show your karate.
I understand your feeling about Andre, but get over it. He is a superstar and you are a nobody.
Lyall Stone
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Post by Bob Davis on Jun 26, 2012 12:28:39 GMT
I suspect you may be nudged by the Mod's but it is a general rule here that we sign our names to our posts and don't hide behind our keyboards.
As you appear to have signed in specifically to have a pop then I would suggest you (to quote) "get some balls" and sign your name and post openly.
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;D ;D 
